Air Tran Bid: Is it closed? Results?

[vixin]

Some may be comfortable where they are.

 

[humveedriver]

It's also interesting that although mid-level SWA 737 F/O's will make more if they "work the system", and our pilots are aware of that, almost every pilot that COULD remain a 717 Captain did so, even though they could have been a mid-level or even senior F/O.

Indicates the CA seat was more important than the extra money as a F/O working the system.

I counted about 180 of the top 500 pilots took the voluntary downgrade. Thats roughly 36 percent. Not sure if you looked at the whole list. Also noted that the junior 717 Captain will be 07/2004 DOH.

 

[DC10]

Humvee, I saw the same thing. I'm a mid-junior 73 Capt who bid 73FO and there are at least 170 guys senior to me who did the same as me.

No shortage of captains (myself included) who thought it would be better to be a SWA FO than a FL capt.

 

[Lear70]

Just saying the majority didn't... I guess the interpretation is in the mind of the beholder.

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

Sorry if I can't deduce the answer to this question from the above thread, but what seniority level pilots will come to the SWA list with the transition of the first few AirTran 737 aircraft?

Where do these folks slot in the integrated list?

 

[slaquer5]

It's also interesting that although mid-level SWA 737 F/O's will make more if they "work the system", and our pilots are aware of that, almost every pilot that COULD remain a 717 Captain did so, even though they could have been a mid-level or even senior F/O.

Indicates the CA seat was more important than the extra money as a F/O working the system.

Why do you put out this mis information? I can only think you can't move on and try and be a part of one team SWA. Your a snake in the grass.

 

[Daddy]

Humvee, I saw the same thing. I'm a mid-junior 73 Capt who bid 73FO and there are at least 170 guys senior to me who did the same as me.

No shortage of captains (myself included) who thought it would be better to be a SWA FO than a FL capt.

Where do you think the bulk will try to go for a base? MCO? BWI?

 

[Daddy]

Staying on the 717 makes sense for some as it appears to guarantee an east coast base and no commuting to OAK. Losing money might be worth it in the short term to many...probably would for me.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Staying on the 717 makes sense for some as it appears to guarantee an east coast base and no commuting to OAK. Losing money might be worth it in the short term to many...probably would for me.

Not to mention that seniority within the 717 is better, for most, than if they went over to the 737 side. Even if some of the 717 guys can't hold ATL, once the entire fleet is on the SWA side there will (hopefully) be the ability for some trip trades. Motivations for each choice is, obviously, personal .. but universally (except for the 'haters') everyone seems happy.

 

[humveedriver]

Sorry if I can't deduce the answer to this question from the above thread, but what seniority level pilots will come to the SWA list with the transition of the first few AirTran 737 aircraft?

Where do these folks slot in the integrated list?

Good question. We dont know yet. SWA planning will look at the bid and come up with their plan. Will it be all ATL? All Captains? A mix? We are waiting to see as well.

 

[Ualexpress]

There were a total of 510 B717 Captain seat available for bid for the AirTran pilots. It didn't quite go straight seniority for those 510 slots. As mentioned above there were about 180 pilots in the first 510 on our list that bid SWA 737FO. If it had gone in straight seniority the 510th pilot on our list was a 12/2001 hire, but because of those 180 pilots and others junior to the 510 who elected to Bid 737 FO the most junior 717 Captain award was seniority #784 with a hire date of July 2004.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Humvee, I saw the same thing. I'm a mid-junior 73 Capt who bid 73FO and there are at least 170 guys senior to me who did the same as me.

No shortage of captains (myself included) who thought it would be better to be a SWA FO than a FL capt.

Be interesting to see how many of those guys already live in one of the SW western US bases, if it cut my commute in half (or made it just a short drive), I'd have bid it as well, all about QOL for me (and I already know how much I can make as a SW F/O but I know that some of the F A/T (former a/t) guys do not nor do they believe) this will all work out in the end! Some just made decisions based on their personal situation! Good on them!!!

Later,
KBB

Btw, SWAPA has the info where all the A/T guys commute from, maybe one of those guys could chime in!

 

[Lear70]

Why do you put out this mis information? I can only think you can't move on and try and be a part of one team SWA. Your a snake in the grass.

Really? Snake in the grass? mkay, whatever.

As far as the "misinformation" is concerned, which part? The idea that people over there can make more as a 737 F/O than we do as 717 CA's? Your guys have been telling us that for a year.

Or are you calling misinformation the FACT that more of our CA's wanted to stay CA's when they had the option to bid to SWA 737 F/O? That part is fact, straight out of the bid results. Here's how the numbers break down, now that I've had time to stick them in a spreadsheet from the original PDF file I got.

- Most junior 717 CA is #784 on the list, a July 2004 hire.
- Most junior 737 FO is # 1,363 on the list, an April 2007 hire.
- The most senior 717 FO who couldn't hold 737 FO is # 1,364, also in that April, 2007 class.
- 370 junior F/O's couldn't hold 737 F/O and got junior-assigned to the 717 regardless of bid preference.

Number of Captains in the top 353 (who can still hold CA on 1/1/15 when the fence drops) who chose to bid SWA 737 F/O instead of 717 CA: 95 (or about 27%).

Number of Captains in the top 510 (those who could have held 717 CA) who chose to go to SWA 737 F/O instead of staying a CA: 146 (or about 28.5%).

So, as I was saying, nearly 3/4 of the pilots elected to remain 717 CA's even though they could have held 737 F/O (this doesn't include the 15 or so "professional First Officers" we have who are super-senior but never upgrade, so the actual percentages are lower than that). Some can be accounted for, as Dicko said, by base preferences, but that's a pretty wide margin, not to mention only half of those people will even hold ATL when the base draw-down happens.

You can call me whatever names you want, I'm just relaying information. If you think I'm being negative, you really have no clue what's going on over here. I'm actually one of the people on our board telling people to keep a positive attitude and things will eventually work out OK. There's a reason the vast majority of the AirTran pilots don't post here anymore.

It'll be fine, it's just going to take some time for people to get past this and move on. I know you Southwest guys don't understand it, but taking it out on each other isn't going to help...

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

It's also interesting that although mid-level SWA 737 F/O's will make more if they "work the system", and our pilots are aware of that, almost every pilot that COULD remain a 717 Captain did so, even though they could have been a mid-level or even senior F/O.

Indicates the CA seat was more important than the extra money as a F/O working the system.

The guys now have a guaranteed spot at SWA in the future. Its not at all possible to compare today's decision making process with pre Sept. '10. Please do not drag all this sh1t up again.

 

[dicko]

Some, for certain, wanted to stay in ATL and not commute, however only the top 225 in each seat will get to stay in ATL, which doesn't account for even close to everyone who bid that way.

Just pointing out that there were many in the top 353 who could have made more money bidding and going early to 737 F/O, playing the system as a senior 737 F/O, then re-bidding in Jan 2015 to 737 CA since their seniority WILL hold it on 1/1/15. They chose to go to the 717 left seat rather than make more money playing the system.

Just an observation... Not hugely surprised, either.

True dat. Many of them made the decision for personal reasons that I can't get my head around. If you look at some parts of the AirTran culture it becomes clearer.

 

[Lear70]

The guys now have a guaranteed spot at SWA in the future. Its not at all possible to compare today's decision making process with pre Sept. '10. Please do not drag all this sh1t up again.

Sorry. Rough last 72 hours for a lot of us as this bid ended. Sometimes it takes a while to adjust to your cheese being moved before you realize you may be better off as a result down the road a bit.

Will go back to lurking... Y'all fly safe. :beer:

 

[PCL_128]

If you think I'm being negative, you really have no clue what's going on over here. I'm actually one of the people on our board telling people to keep a positive attitude and things will eventually work out OK.

This is true. Lots of angry people on our internal forum, and Lear is trying to calm everyone down and get them to move forward. Attacking him makes no sense.

 

[jball2]

In all seriousness, let's get along and move forward. This is happening and there is no turning back. We have no control over what has happened so let's focus on the positive things we can make happen in the future. Two passionate pilot groups with warrior spirits going forward as one can be a powerful thing. When I say welcome to the family, I mean it! Thanks for a great ride home this week AT guys.

 

[Quiet Flight]

NOT ONE SINGLE AIRTRAN PILOT WILL KNOW THEIR SOUTHWEST BASE UNTIL THEY ARE FINISHING IOE AT SOUTHWEST.

This is incorrect. U will know your temporary/"build-up" base while in training. If a vacancy award comes out while you're in class, you'll know your base as well.

 

[Lonestar]

Most junior 717 captain is a July 2004 hire. How does that compare to right now?