Air Marshall Kills Pax

[P-Dawg_QX]

This event sure didn't stay in the news that long. I forgot all about it.

 

[Booster]

From AvFlash 29 May

Air Marshals Cleared In Passenger Shooting

Federal Air Marshals "demonstrated remarkable restraint in dealing with" an unarmed man whom they fired upon nine times and killed with at least four bullets outside a parked airliner at Miami International Airport. The Miami-Dade State Attorney's office has determined the unidentified marshals were "legally justified" in killing Rigoberto Alpizar when he bolted from the aircraft after the Air Marshals say he told other passengers that he was carrying a bomb and would detonate it. The names of the Air Marshals were not released and they will be flying again, "shortly," according to a TSA spokesman quoted by the Miami Herald.

The marshals fired nine times after Alpizar reached into a backpack that he was wearing on his chest and, according to one of the marshals, said, "I'm going to blow up this bomb." There was a bottle of water in the backpack.
:beer:

 

[FN FAL]

It's hard to be a second place winner if your oppenent is armed with a water bottle in a back pack.

Memphis - Mary Fisher's fifteen year career with the U.S. Marshal's Department came to a violent end Mother's Day morning outside of her Cordova home after she was shot to death. Police say the bizarre series of incidents that would lead to the shooting started hours before.

Around 6am Sunday she was spotted at Germantown Road and Macon Road by Memphis police working an accident scene. "They witnessed the vehicle driving erratically in opposing traffic, violating some traffic laws. They put on the blue light and sirens in an attempt to do a traffic stop." says Sgt. Vince Higgins with the Memphis Police Department.

Police say Fisher never stopped until she drove about a mile to her Cordova home. That's when she came face to face with police. "Officers followed the victims into her driveway. They asked her to come out of the car. She opened the car door looked out. She went back into the car, then turned around with a pistol and fired at the officers. They returned fire." says Steve Shular with the Shelby County Sheriff's Department.

One of the police officers was also wounded. Mary Fisher was killed. It quickly became a multi-department investigation. When Mary Fisher was first spotted on Germantown Road, she was actually in the city of Memphis. That's why police tried to stop her. By the time she made it to Cordova Club and her home on Palmina Avenue, she was in Shelby County, which is why the Sheriff's Department responded.

Now the Sheriff's Department is trying to sort out the details and waiting for a medical report to see how many times Fisher was shot. Memphis police are also doing their own investigation to see if the officer who fired the shots followed department policy. Both departments say they won't comment further on the case until the investigation is complete.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

Air Marshals Cleared In Passenger Shooting

Federal Air Marshals "demonstrated remarkable restraint in dealing with" an unarmed man whom they fired upon nine times and killed with at least four bullets outside a parked airliner at Miami International Airport. The Miami-Dade State Attorney's office has determined the unidentified marshals were "legally justified" in killing Rigoberto Alpizar when he bolted from the aircraft after the Air Marshals say he told other passengers that he was carrying a bomb and would detonate it. The names of the Air Marshals were not released and they will be flying again, "shortly," according to a TSA spokesman quoted by the Miami Herald.

The marshals fired nine times after Alpizar reached into a backpack that he was wearing on his chest and, according to one of the marshals, said, "I'm going to blow up this bomb." There was a bottle of water in the backpack.
:beer:

This was rediculous. Shot him in the back in a jetway if I remember correctly. I also recall that the man was in his seventies. These FAMs were trigger happy lunatics and should be in jail, not back on the job.

 

[JumpCaptain]

I'm curious how you think they should have responded.

 

[atrdriver]

This was rediculous. Shot him in the back in a jetway if I remember correctly. I also recall that the man was in his seventies. These FAMs were trigger happy lunatics and should be in jail, not back on the job.

Well, you remember wrong. He was 44 years old, and was NOT shot in the back. After making a threat, he reached into his pack, which he was wearing on his chest, after being told not to. The FAM's did their job, correctly.

Had this gone the other way, and he did have a bomb, and killed a lot of people, you would be on here moaning about how the FAMs should have done their job by killing him.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

You're absolutely right.

Here's the link..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service

I must have been confusing this with several other stories.

I am very sensitive to the over use of force though... I think the TSA has too much power and likes to wield it around dangerously. It begins with screeners as we all know all too well. Having been a Marine, and knowing many law enforcement types including local police officers, Feds, and several FFDOs It always seems to me that these type of positions attract folks with itchy trigger fingers and those just waiting to use deadly force.

This is a double edged sword of course. I'll compare it to Airport Fire Response Units. These guys are hero's in waiting. Indeed very brave, and skilled men and women; and I'm quite glad to know they are there if god forbid I ever need them.... BUT I'm sure many of you have seen the look of dissapointment in their eyes when a forced landing due to smoke or something turns out to be a false alarm...

Dissapointment is one thing, but looking for an excuse to use deadly force is another. I'm not saying for sure these FAMS were wrong, but I will say that reading different accounts of the incident, it really seems this shooting was a stretch. Sure the guy was a nut, but he and all of his bags, cleared TSA AND customs. PLUS pretty much all the passengers within earshot did not hear 1 mention of the word "bomb". In fact one passenger in 1st class heard nothing but the word "stop" from the FAM before shots were fired.

 

[FN FAL]

The FAM's did their job, correctly.

Had this gone the other way, and he did have a bomb, and killed a lot of people, you would be on here moaning about how the FAMs should have done their job by killing him.

What if this, what if that. Truth of the matter is; Marshals wont be on every flight, authorities can assume that screening doesn't work and bombs can get on airliners.

If authorities can assume that bombs could be on airliners, I'm not riding on one.

 

[da90drivr]

Otto, Are you gathering all of your factual information from the media or are you reading official reports?

Idiot!

 

[Otto Coarsen]

Otto, Are you gathering all of your factual information from the media or are you reading official reports?

Idiot!

If you read on, you'd see I was confusing the case, and I admitted my mistake.

Jackass

 

[ILOVEBEER]

Having been a Marine, and knowing many law enforcement types including local police officers, Feds, and several FFDOs It always seems to me that these type of positions attract folks with itchy trigger fingers and those just waiting to use deadly force.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7296.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DC133CF932A15751C0A965958260&pagewanted=print

...and marines don't have "itchy" trigger fingers? An 18 year old kid gets a few months of firearm training and then he's handed a rifle, shipped off to Fallujah and told to kill; but that's ok because he's better trained than the stupid "local police officers, Feds, and several FFDO's" that you know? Get off your high horse, Marine.

 

[FN FAL]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7296.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DC133CF932A15751C0A965958260&pagewanted=print

...and marines don't have "itchy" trigger fingers? An 18 year old kid gets a few months of firearm training and then he's handed a rifle, shipped off to Fallujah and told to kill; but that's ok because he's better trained than the stupid "local police officers, Feds, and several FFDO's" that you know? Get off your high horse, Marine.

I thought you were posting a link to the alleged Marine massacre at Haditha.

 

[atlcrashpad]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/15/marshal.shot.ap/index.html?section=cnn_us

MEMPHIS, Tennessee (AP) -- A deputy U.S. marshal was killed in a shootout with police officers who had stopped the agent for driving erratically early Sunday, authorities said.
Mary Fisher, 46, refused to stop when officers tried to pull her over and led the officers to her home around 6 a.m., according to Sgt. Vince Higgins, a police spokesman.
When the officers told her to get out of the car, she opened her door, pulled out a gun and started shooting at them, Higgins said. (Watch for bullet holes in the BMW and body removal -- 1:45)
Officer Patrick Taylor, 34, was shot in the leg. He was taken to a hospital, where he remains in stable condition.
The other officer, whose name has not been released, was unharmed.
Both officers have been relieved of duty while the investigation continues.
Fisher was pronounced dead at the scene. Police said they could not say how many times she was shot.
Fisher had been in Memphis for several years and began her career as a deputy marshal in the early 1990s, according to the U.S. Marshals Service.
"Nobody saw this coming. No, there's no prior history that I'm aware of that would have brought this on," said David Jolley, a U.S. Marshals spokesman.
Sheriff's deputies went to Fisher's home just before 10 p.m. Saturday after a woman there dialed 911 and hung up.
Fisher was gone by the time they arrived, but a work associate at the house told deputies Fisher was delusional and had driven away, according to a joint statement from the sheriff's office and police.
Her car was spotted a few hours later driving recklessly near a crash scene police were investigating, authorities said.
The officers called for assistance, and Taylor and the other officer responded


I wonder what made her snap? I hope that the officers are cleared and can return to duty. I wonder if she will be placed on the Roll of Honor? That is normally reserved for officers that die in the line of duty.

 

[ultrarunner]

Air Marshals Cleared In Passenger Shooting...they fired upon nine times and killed with at least four bullets

Better send these guys back to the range. I'll give them the benifit that all nine connected and 4 were in the kill zone...

...but if 5 rounds were pulled from the funiture...that 'aint good.

 

[blueridge71]

It said that 4 bullets were kill shots. That doesn't mean that there were 5 misses, but that there were 5 nonfatal shots. These could have been hits as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

It said that 4 bullets were kill shots. That doesn't mean that there were 5 misses, but that there were 5 nonfatal shots. These could have been hits as well.

Yeah, I know what it said, I read it.

You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I gave them the benefit that all 9 were hits....

guess I'll have clarify better....

 

[Otto Coarsen]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7296.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DC133CF932A15751C0A965958260&pagewanted=print

...and marines don't have "itchy" trigger fingers? An 18 year old kid gets a few months of firearm training and then he's handed a rifle, shipped off to Fallujah and told to kill; but that's ok because he's better trained than the stupid "local police officers, Feds, and several FFDO's" that you know? Get off your high horse, Marine.

High Horse? That was my point, fella!

Having been one of those types, I know first hand.. Where did I say those guys were less trained? All I said is that THAT kind of job attracts a certain type of personality. 99.9999% of heterosexual males are in that phase between the ages of 18-25. Some never outgrow it.

Maybe you should hone your reading comprehension skills a tad eh?