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Air France Flight Missing

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ImbracableCrunk

ImbracableCrunk

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http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5501PB20090601

PARIS (Reuters) - An Air France plane on its way from Brazil to Paris has gone missing with 228 people on board, the airline said on Monday.
Its last known location was unclear. Brazilian television said the Brazilian air force had started a search mission over the Atlantic Ocean for the plane.
Flight AF 447 has 216 passengers and 12 crew on board. It left Rio de Janeiro on Sunday at 7 p.m. local time and was expected in Paris on Monday at 11:15 a.m. (5:15 a.m. EDT).
"Air France regrets to announce that it is without news from flight AF 447, which was flying on the Rio de Janeiro - Paris Charles de Gaulle route and was scheduled to arrive at 11.15 a.m. today (5:15 a.m. EDT)," an Air France spokesman said.
An Air France-KLM spokeswoman in Amsterdam said there had been no radio contact with the missing plane "for a while."
The plane was an Airbus 330-200, according to the Paris airports authority website.
Air France said relatives of people traveling on board flight AF 447 were being taken care of in a special area of Charles de Gaulle airport.
(Reporting by Jean-Baptiste Vey, Gerard Bon, Astrid Wendlandt and Tim Hepher; writing by Estelle Shirbon; editing by Crispian Balmer and Angus MacSwan)
 
FWIW

Several sources now reporting that that an "electrical problem was reported by onboard systems while in an area of heavy turbulence".

After a glance at the satellite picture, the south Atlantic ITCZ looks like it's in full bloom.
 
Just did a crossing two days ago from Spain... I kept thinking how much water there was down there, with very little options. God Bless them.
 
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going to show my ignorance here. can anyone dispell the idea, that a former NTSB offical cited, that if the airbus lost all power they may not have been able to control the aircraft as a result of fly-by-wire technology?

odviously this would be very damning for fly-by-wire technology in general IF it is the case.
 
He's just a bitter rj butt warmer. These pilots are highly trained. It's Air France for Pete's Sake!

Hope they end up somewhere on land with no cell phone coverage safe and sound. Not looking too good.
 
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jpeace02 said:
going to show my ignorance here. can anyone dispell the idea, that a former NTSB offical cited, that if the airbus lost all power they may not have been able to control the aircraft as a result of fly-by-wire technology?

odviously this would be very damning for fly-by-wire technology in general IF it is the case.
Click to expand...

I have always had this fear of fly by wire tech. It was the first thing i thought of when i heard lightning
 
Obviously an aircraft would never be allowed to carry passengers without some form of redundancy. In the case of a complete electrical failure, the aircraft as a Ram Air Turbine that drives essential electrical and hydraulic systems. If that back up system fails, the Trimmable Horizontal Stab and the Rudder can be controlled manually (cables).
 
I cannot imagine that Airbus has no electrical backup. What about the RAT (Ram Air Turbine)? Besides, I think severe turbulence is worse than lightning strikes. Let's hope for the best.
 
MSN news is now saying that officials are confirming a catastrophic crash.

But then again, we all know how the news outlets like to jump the gun so take it for what it's worth.

Always feels like a punch to the gut when you read about things like this.
 
rf285 said:
He's just a bitter rj butt warmer. These pilots are highly trained. It's Air France for Pete's Sake!

Hope they end up somewhere on land with no cell phone coverage safe and sound. Not looking too good.
Click to expand...

Yep-

This is all the fault of RJs.... You know-one of tjose crappy "RJs" built but Airbus (which can carry 300 pax) and the substandard pilots-probably from Gulfstream...
 
StaySeated said:
If that back up system fails, the Trimmable Horizontal Stab and the Rudder can be controlled manually (cables).
Click to expand...

I can't even imagine an aircraft such as that losing every electrical option, and with only those control surfaces, controlling the aircraft would be a really tall order over the Atlantic at night, with turbulence, and T-storms...with no attitude instruments (I assume the backup is also electric). It would be hard/impossible just to determine which direction is up in those conditions.
 
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jpeace02 said:
going to show my ignorance here. can anyone dispell the idea, that a former NTSB offical cited...
Click to expand...
If that's who I think it is, we used to joke in air safety circles that he would report the cause of the crash while the airplane was still in flight.

Ready, FIRE, aim... .

If this is the same guy who it always tends to be, he does a disservice to air safety work. If this AirBus was lost in the ocean there will be a lot of hard work needed to figure out why, what and lessons we can apply. We will not know all the answers for years, if then.
 
Airplane missing, last known position over the Atlantic; down somewhere, God knows where, by now. The fate of almost 300 humans unknown, but looking bleaker with each passing hour. Probably a lot of empty seats at dinner tables tonight; lots of widows, orphans and bereaved parents whose lives are forever altered and some of you actually try to turn it into a RJ/GIA pissing contest.

Screw you.
 
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Axel said:
Airplane missing, last known position over the Atlantic; down somewhere, God knows where, by now. The fate of almost 300 humans unknown, but looking bleaker with each passing hour. Probably a lot of empty seats at dinner tables tonight; lots of widows, orphans and bereaved parents whose lives are forever altered and some of you actually try to turn it into a RJ/GIA pissing contest.

Screw you.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Grow up, people.
 
Shhhhhh...

It's actually a PR promo for the new reality show based off of ABC's highly successful "LOST" program.

Stay tuned. Lots of hot French babes stranded on a desert island.
 
Amish RakeFight said:
Shhhhhh...

It's actually a PR promo for the new reality show based off of ABC's highly successful "LOST" program.

Stay tuned. Lots of hot French babes stranded on a desert island.
Click to expand...

I can't believe how many people have such sick minds. For one, I would never even think to think about this when i view an aircraft crash, let alone to decide to post it on an internet message board. Do you think people are actually going to laugh at that statement? Why don't you go to the airport where the plane was supposed to land and say what you just said there in front of all the families and see how many people laugh.
 
i fly boxes said:
I can't believe how many people have such sick minds. For one, I would never even think to think about this when i view an aircraft crash, let alone to decide to post it on an internet message board. Do you think people are actually going to laugh at that statement? Why don't you go to the airport where the plane was supposed to land and say what you just said there in front of all the families and see how many people laugh.
Click to expand...

You'll have to excuse me and my sense of humor. You see, I was born to a set of Vulcan parents and don't understand this silly fragility called human emotion. Very peculiar and paradoxial on my home planet.
 
wmuflyguy said:
I can't even imagine an aircraft such as that losing every electrical option, and with only those control surfaces, controlling the aircraft would be a really tall order over the Atlantic at night, with turbulence, and T-storms...with no attitude instruments (I assume the backup is also electric). It would be hard/impossible just to determine which direction is up in those conditions.
Click to expand...

Well, hard but not impossible. We had to do it in the Sim 20 years ago this month when I typed in the 320. I would hope that it is still done today.

DC
 
It has backup for the flight controls. It is required under FAA Certification Part 25. I cannot recall the JAA number, but they require it too.
A RAT would provide essential power. Most flight controls will have two if not three separate channels of power to each control surface.
Add to that back up hydraulic power to move the surfaces as well.
 
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-air-france-missing2-2009jun02,0,4765833.story

Reporting from Bogota, Colombia, and Sao Paulo, Brazil, -- Strong turbulence apparently caused an electric circuit to fail aboard an Air France jetliner flying from Brazil to Paris, forcing the plane to crash and killing all 228 people on board, officials for the airline announced this morning.

In a prepared statement and news conference in Paris, Air France-KLM Chief Executive Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said Flight 447 had reported "the failure of several onboard computer systems" after flying through an area of turbulence today.
Click to expand...
 
Despite all the redundancy, there are probably weak areas that could cause total failure.

The DC-10 before they modified the hydraulics comes to mind. Who knew?

And the more complicated the system, the more opportunity for one in a million type failures.

Personally, the idea of no manual reversion mode makes me squeamish. And from what I understand about the Airbus, electrics are required for very control level from full to minimum.
 

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