Air Force to UAL New Hire

[ROSWELL41]

I think your post pretty much sums up the white male perspective of "it's over lets move on" while ignoring subtle and sometimes not so subtle discrimination that continues to this day. You think it's solved but have you asked any women of African Americans what they thought? There are still many hurdles to overcome and prejudices that need to be changed. It is hardly over with, as you seem to think. If the US is 50% women, 14% African American, and 32% Hispanic, do the demographics at any US air carrier even come close to resembling those demographics? Why not if we are so far along on the road to equality?

Are you suggesting that the demographic makeup of the UAL pilot group should reflect that of the country at large? That is the most absurd comment in this entire thread. Women CHOOSE this career at a much lower rate than men. No need to artificially inflate their numbers. The discrimination you speak of is a myth in 2014. Quit propagating the victim mentality and boosting the grievance industry.

 

[Tripower455]

Are you suggesting that the demographic makeup of the UAL pilot group should reflect that of the country at large? That is the most absurd comment in this entire thread. Women CHOOSE this career at a much lower rate than men. No need to artificially inflate their numbers. The discrimination you speak of is a myth in 2014. Quit propagating the victim mentality and boosting the grievance industry.

Exactly!

 

[Tripower455]

I think your post pretty much sums up the white male perspective of "it's over lets move on" while ignoring subtle and sometimes not so subtle discrimination that continues to this day. You think it's solved but have you asked any women of African Americans what they thought? There are still many hurdles to overcome and prejudices that need to be changed. It is hardly over with, as you seem to think. If the US is 50% women, 14% African American, and 32% Hispanic, do the demographics at any US air carrier even come close to resembling those demographics? Why not if we are so far along on the road to equality?

In the world of hiring, particularly airline hiring, it has been over for more than 3 decades. GMAFB.

I lived through that BS. Did you?

 

[AirCobra]

Are you suggesting that the demographic makeup of the UAL pilot group should reflect that of the country at large? That is the most absurd comment in this entire thread. Women CHOOSE this career at a much lower rate than men. No need to artificially inflate their numbers. The discrimination you speak of is a myth in 2014. Quit propagating the victim mentality and boosting the grievance industry.

Again spoken from the perspective of the white male. We often choose not to go places where we feel we will not be welcome. Ever discussed it with a female pilot/ I have and they all say the same thing, that they feel they have to be better, that they get no slack, and constantly have to prove themselves. They also say they need to help change attitudes and try to attract more young women into aviation. You can't with a straight face tell me the cultures of airline and military pilots is open and welcoming to women.

Don't you think that 25 years later, if everything was just fine that it should reflect society a little more than it does?

 

[AirCobra]

In the world of hiring, particularly airline hiring, it has been over for more than 3 decades. GMAFB.

I lived through that BS. Did you?

Well the stats don't lie. The "300 hour wonder" hiring was nowhere near as prevalent as you made it out to be or perhaps you just misremember, yet you obviously harbor plenty of resentment. Don't you think that may be part of the problem? I ask again have you ever discussed the situation with a African American pilot or a woman?

You don't have to answer but honestly when you see a woman or African American pilot do you automatically think they received special consideration? Have you ever thought that about a white male pilot?

 

[AirCobra]

Exactly!

:laugh: Figures you would say that. Don't you see the inherent contradiction in the post? Let me help you: Why do women not choose aviation, a job always listed as a top ten career for pay and satisfaction? Why would that be the case if everything was just fine?

Do you think groups like the 99's, the WIA or the Whirlygirls are just making stuff up about the challenges women face?

 

[waveflyer]

Well, since there are more total civilian-trained pilots than military-trained pilots at Southwest (55 to 45%), then I'd say that you've had more than an equal spot at the hiring pool. Ya know what I mean?

And here's something for you to consider, Wave: the most recent new hires, including the class you mentioned with a preponderance of ex-military, were picked for interview by a third party computer program based on total qualifications, not by a bunch of "secret handshake" Southwest military guys. That's not the way it works anymore. The way to get hired here has changed radically in the last few years, and selecting applicants has become much less subjective with respect to qualifications. That means that "back in the day," when people could get "hooked up," the company hired more civilian-trained guys than ex-military. I'm not sure how your military conspiracy theory can explain that.

Bubba

Where do you get the 55/45 number bubba?

As far as computer algorithms - I've dealt with those at two airlines

Garbage in garbage out
There are many ways to manipulate that and it almost always is

 

[waveflyer]

So this is your bar for an acceptable 121 pilot, MUST fly an RJ for two years?

Sorry, I'll take ACTUALLY hand flying a jet for 3000 hours, over any spikey haired punk who knows which gate has the Starbucks, and has only sat and watched a plane fly itself. Those are exactly the guys who have trouble in our sims and on the line.

See?
What kind of stereotype is that?^^^
Spiky haired? Really?

2000 hours of RJ time or a year each on a turboprop and RJ, would be a good qualification for many military pilots before they end up with the six figure end goal 121 job.

One should have some experience in the job you're applying to do before ending up at the top of the food chain

 

[waveflyer]

AC you're example is as dated as your beliefs

9/11

Age 65

Very few airlines have hired in the last decade

Virgin was asking for and getting 5000 total turbine time and 2500 tpic-
For the least paying job

RJs and 9/11 BKs changed things- I had 3100 hours when I got my first major airline job- also my first jet - furloughed - checks, turboprops, charter& back at a regional - I had 8000 + hours and a few more type ratings when the pipeline turned back on for a minute before age 65- then the financial crisis- now after more than a decade of mostly stagnation pilots are in the 40's with a lot of time and experience and probably a kid or two at home
WAY more polished than the days of the 2000 hour civilian applicant

 

[waveflyer]

Considering United didn't hire its first black pilot until 1965 and it's first woman pilot until 1973, a different kind of BS was perpetuated for over 30 years. How do you remedy a situation like that? Pretending it never happened is not exactly justice or fairness.

This is well said^^^
A lot of that was well earned-

Plus low minimums always exist so that a well deserving captain's kid or intern could slide in- I don't begrudge that

It's certainly not for affirmative action- those are entirely different rules and regulators