Air Force to UAL New Hire

[scoreboardII]

With all that you've done in your career, why is it offensive to spend a year or two in the right seat somewhere- getting those 121 rules down BEFORE getting the six figure job.

So this is your bar for an acceptable 121 pilot, MUST fly an RJ for two years?

Sorry, I'll take ACTUALLY hand flying a jet for 3000 hours, over any spikey haired punk who knows which gate has the Starbucks, and has only sat and watched a plane fly itself. Those are exactly the guys who have trouble in our sims and on the line.

 

[SWA Bubba]

AC- point taken on your first 250 hours
Most don't jump into turbine until 1000 hours
And yes, I did fly cancelled checks for a time.

How does that explain needing 3 times the amount of flight time when it's all said and done and pilots start getting calls to interview?

Still haven't answered that.

Done. You win when it comes to primary training

(Though I have seen cessnas hand major airline pilots of all backgrounds their asses- so I'm not sure that underpowered light airplanes should be disrespected entirely- I find when I'm out and about and doing that light flying I'm a bit better skill wise in the Gup, but I digress.)

Please realize that there are plenty of civilian programs that have tough standards and a lot of civilians don't deserve this myth that they bought their ratings and didn't earn it.

All I can go by is what I hear and what I experience online-
Is it subjective ? Sure

But I stand by the message that civilians have earned, by our daily performance and attitudes, an equal spot at the hiring pool.
That's my only point.

Well, since there are more total civilian-trained pilots than military-trained pilots at Southwest (55 to 45%), then I'd say that you've had more than an equal spot at the hiring pool. Ya know what I mean?

And here's something for you to consider, Wave: the most recent new hires, including the class you mentioned with a preponderance of ex-military, were picked for interview by a third party computer program based on total qualifications, not by a bunch of "secret handshake" Southwest military guys. That's not the way it works anymore. The way to get hired here has changed radically in the last few years, and selecting applicants has become much less subjective with respect to qualifications. That means that "back in the day," when people could get "hooked up," the company hired more civilian-trained guys than ex-military. I'm not sure how your military conspiracy theory can explain that.

Bubba

 

[sat74]

This thread has confirmed what I've always known about this shiiite profession....

Pilots are total doooooshbags. I'm so glad I quit the airlines to go to corporate where the dooooosh factor is so much less.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I find regional pilots complety lost when coming into the on-demand busienss. Had a lot of ComAir guys coming here a while back. They are not proficient in steam dials, hand flying skills, and flying with only VOR and DME on the Jet Routes. They have no idea how to clear customs at 0400 at KLRD, or deal ICCS to get clearnace to off load Cargo in Mexico. Plus them seem to have no idea how to use a J-Bar and skates to move cargo on the DA-20. I guess 121 regional pilots are not very well prepared to go into the on-demand cargo world.

There are 91/135 corporate pilots who do that stuff all the time. When they try to make the jump to the majors, they're told at the job fairs to get some structure at a 121 regional. Can't win.

This thread has confirmed what I've always known about this shiiite profession....
Pilots are total doooooshbags. I'm so glad I quit the airlines to go to corporate where the dooooosh factor is so much less.

As well as the structure

 

[Turtle21]

This thread has confirmed what I've always known about this shiiite profession....

Pilots are total doooooshbags. I'm so glad I quit the airlines to go to corporate where the dooooosh factor is so much less.

Corporate has more plastic smiles, that's for sure.

 

[pilotyip]

But I'll tell you what, we'll give you our senior guys who struggle with glass and trade them for your comair pilots

Can't do that, the Comair guys have all moved on. Those expereicned regional guys seem to move to front of everyone's hiring list. Or maybe in the combination of fr8dawging combined with the regional life that makes them such as catch?

 

[AirCobra]

AC- point taken on your first 250 hours
Most don't jump into turbine until 1000 hours
And yes, I did fly cancelled checks for a time.

How does that explain needing 3 times the amount of flight time when it's all said and done and pilots start getting calls to interview?

Still haven't answered that.

Again pretty simple. Years ago for example the United requirement was 1500 hours TT, but you could only count up to 500 hours of single engine piston engine time, so everyone needed at least 1000 hours of turbine or multiengine time. And that was just United, other airlines had different requirements including my favorite of "count time only in aircraft over 300,000 lbs".

So while 1500 hours doesn't seem like much, an Air Force pilot could count every hour starting in day one of primary, while your typical CFI, say with 1200 hours, in United's eyes only had 500 hours because they didn't count single engine recip time beyond that amount. Again who is more qualified to fly a jet but a guy who flies a jet.

So do the math. The Air Force guy meets the requirements right at 1500 hours, while the CFI with 1200 hours must go and find a way to get 1000 hours of turbine time. That meant he wouldn't be hirable until he has 2200 hours TT minimum. If they had to instruct another year before they get a turbine job, well there was another few hundred hours that won't be counted.

Here are some other examples I remember seeing on applications (all of which slant favorably toward the Air Force jet pilot. Even Navy/Marine/CG guys are excluded from some of these because we trained in SE turboprops instead of ME jets):

1000 hours TT (only 250 of helicopter time may be counted toward the 1000 hours)

No Helicopter time may be counted to the total time requirement.

Count only time in jet aircraft. No turboprop time will be counted.

No time spent as an instructor may be counted toward the total time requirement.

No single engine time may be counted.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[AirCobra]

Wave this is from SWA's website:


Flight Experience: 2,500 hours total or 1,500 hours Turbine total. Additionally, a minimum of 1,000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the Pilot in Command is required2. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed-wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO, etc. NO other time is counted.3

Again it slants heavily toward Air Force guys not because they are in the military but because they have all turbine time.

They count no helo time, so I would lose about 1600 hours from the TT requirement.

Fly Barons or Navajos, and none of you PIC time counts. Fly F-16's and it does.

Spend years as a 727 FE at Amerijet and all those years are lost for the purposes of logging TT.

 

[sat74]

Look at the old United scantron form from the 90s. Heavily favored military time. But that's also when the mins were only 300 hours.

 

[Tripower455]

Look at the old United scantron form from the 90s. Heavily favored military time. But that's also when the mins were only 300 hours.

That BS heavily favored the least qualified..... as long as they fit a certain profile that the vast majority of pilots don't.