Air Force Pilots

[Hercdude02]

3 words

Air National Guard.....the best kept secret going!!!

 

[frog_flyer]

whats the average anr guy logs monthly?

im sure its different by airframe, so break it down like that if you have the stats

 

[Hercdude02]

You're right is does depend on the a/c, but for me a good year is 300-400 hours. Also depends on what our schedule is like....flying around the flag pole or flying in the desert. QOL is the best part, hours come second.

 

[Pistlpetet]

If you want to be a pilot and fly for a living, don't join the military. Period. For the first year and a half or so, you will eat, sleep and poop flight training. After that, you will be an officer, doing the things officers do, which for the most part is supervision and push'n pencils. Who do you think runs the flying squadrons/ops group? The pilots. When I'm not deployed, I spend 5 days a week from 7:30am-500pm behind a desk doing admin duties, unless I'm lucky enough to get on a local training mission or a trip (even more rare). I've flown 3 times in the last 6 weeks and that's average. I'm even a fairly new copilot who should be flying a lot. Unfortunately, the only time we fly a lot is when we're deployed for 60+ days at a time (about every other day - 100+ hours a month) and in the tanker, deployment rates are averaging about 180+ days a year, not including the taskings we get when we're home. Being a military pilot may not be what you think it is. I know it's not what I thought it'd be. Unfortunately, it's about 25% flying and 75% bureaucracy. Fortunately, you're asking the right questions before hand. Get as much info as you can before making this decision. I wish I had. Don't let TV commercials and recruiters that don't know their arse from their elbos about being a pilot in the AF talk you into anything.

You sound pretty disgruntled, and I am sure it is all relative, but I think the AF has done pretty good for you, and you should be thankful. Everyone would like to fly more, but at least you are flying a big Jet, and have gotten training far more worthy then any of your ERAU campadres.

Being a miltary pilot with 2000hrs in your logbook, is still better then being a civilian pilot with 5000hrs in your logbook. You are well ahead of a lot of people, and there are people that would trade slots with you if they could. Spend a few years in the Army, that will make you appreciate the AF, flying a desk or not.

 

[K-Mart]

Why are AF Tankers always the biggest crybabies? Here's a guy with a great deal and he still thinks up reasons to b*tch and moan.

Well put Dave!

 

[Pistlpetet]

Originally Posted by Pistlpetet

Being a miltary pilot with 2000hrs in your logbook, is still better then being a civilian pilot with 5000hrs in your logbook.

Not true these days with the advent of the crj.

A 21 yr old straight out of college goes into the crj which has state of the art electronics and avionics.

A 5000 hr regional Captain is probably 25 years old with 3000 hrs of PIC jet experience in state of the art passenger equipment.

I have no idea if you have even been in the military. I gather you have not. That is why you totally misunderstood my post that you quoted.

If any Military Pilot wanted to fly a CRJ for a discount salary, they would have. We joined for other reasons that can not be bought by Daddy, or weaseled into. We joined for the whole "Experience" that can only be joined in one short decade of your life.

So back to my quote (Explained for a Civilian). A 2000hr Military Pilot is far richer in experiences outside what his logbook reads. Experiences, and friends that stay for life.

 

[troy]

Join the military, you get to blow ******************** up! Go USN!

 

[MalteseX]

Pay in AF...

Currently I am a Junior in College and finishing up my Psychology degree business admin minor and have this passion to fly. I have started my PPL here and was looking for options out there. After spending a week with a buddy of mine and his uncle who spent 20 years in the Airforce it made me wonder about it as an option. I am more so curious if there is anyone out there who would tell me more about OTS and doing flight training through the airforce and commitments and the basics. I really do want to get married and have a family and I am just unsure if going through the Airforce for my flight training and OTS would be a good route or if the FBO and training would be a better route for my situation. Of course I want to get a quality training which i would get through the Airforce but am unsure about the commitment and life. Any thoughts and comments on this would be great. Also pay and exactly how to read the scales on the website would be appreciated as well.
Thank you

I noticed many people answered your first questions on commitment etc. But nobody answered the pay question. The following is for a married individual under 2 years (2d Lt) living at Travis AFB CA.

Base Pay 2416+ BAH 1485 (tax-free) +BAS 187.49 (tax-free) +Flight Pay of 125 per month. That amounts to about $50,581 per year

At year 4, assuming normal promotion to Captain, it will increase to: Flight Pay 206 + BAS 187.49 (tax-free) + BAH 1892 (tax-free) + Base Pay $4297.50 per month. That amounts to about $78,996 (about $80,000). Remember about $24000 of that is tax-free; so if you are in the 28 percent tax bracket, that tranlates to $33333 taxable exquivalent. Therefore,
for comparison with a "civilian" salary, that would be about $89,333 per year at year 4.
Also, if you can claim a state like Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Nevada, Alaska, Washington, etc. as your home state, your income will be free of state taxes as well. So go to pilot training in Texas and take up residence there!!!

 

[RampFreeze]

A couple of clarifiers are important. Your BAH (Housing Allowance) is entirely dependant upon location. Travis AFB is one of the more expensive locations. For example, at Grand Forks AFB the Housing Allowance for a 2nd Lieutenant is $870/month if you are married or $618/month if you are single. Rates increase with rank/promotion as indicated.

 

[Pistlpetet]

I've flown about 600 this past year in the KC-135. 400 of that is combat time over Iraq/Afghanistan.
.

This is what you posted on another Thread TankerDriver. You ARE a whinner if you are still complaining about not flying enough. I concurr with what SEAL guy had to say. Get a life.

 

[TankerDriver]

This is what you posted on another Thread TankerDriver. You ARE a whinner if you are still complaining about not flying enough. I concurr with what SEAL guy had to say. Get a life.

600 hours in a year a lot of flight time? Let me be more specific. That 600 hours is total time, which includes "other" time. That's not all in the seat time and also is not divided evenly at 50 hours a month. You must not be familiar with our lifestyle. That 600 hours actually comes from two 65 day deployments that average about 150-180 in 65 days. Yes, orbiting for 6-7 hours over Iraq every other day for 2 months builds the flight time pretty quickly. This is pretty much when we "play" pilot for 2 months. Whether that 150-180 hours of flight time is more valuable than 150-180 hours of Part 121 CRJ time, as you suggest, I'm not sure about that. In regards to stick and rudder, IFR skills, etc... I don't think it is in my opinion. In regards to saying, "I'm serving my country in the War on Terror", well that's apples to oranges and of course it's no contest then. The rest of that 600 hours for me comes from 65 hours or so of formal training at the school house and then home station flying of about 15 hours a month (2 to 3 training missions at most), where most of the time there are so many pilots on board trying to get training requirements accomplished, you end up spending 1.5-2 hours in the seat and the rest of the time in the jumpseat or even farther aft. My primary/secondary time totals just under 500 hours for the year.

I will maintain, that I don't think we, in this particular unit at least, get as much proficiency as we should and I'm sure this is not specific to this tanker unit. I'm talking stick and rudder skills, ie: landing the jet, flying a tactical overhead, a closed pattern with high crosswinds, crosswind landings, you name it... with our ops tempo being as high as it is and the lack of good training while we're deployed (one to a full stop), we're trying to push 20lb of $hit into a 10lb bag of training requirements during the time we are home just to check the boxes. The last time I flew, which was almost exactly a month ago, we did a pattern only sortie, getting in what I consider some good training. 3 hours of approach work, touch and goes, engine out procedures, etc... with a 15 knot crosswind. Good stuff. After the flight I said to one of the other pilots, "We should get more of these types of sorties." and his response was, "Well, I'm training complete for the semester so these are kind of worthless for me.". This was the same pilot who was consistantly 5 knots slow on approach speeds almost all day long and couldn't hold the plane on centerline with a 15 knot crosswind. Now, I in no way consider myself Chuck Yeager, but this guy could use some more pattern sorties and this is not the first time I've witnessed this mentality. By saying we don't take flying as seriously as we should, I don't mean that we horse around in the jet like it's a circus. I mean that we've got so many other things in our daily lives that we do that are totally unrelated to flying that we simply cannot focus on being a pilot for a living, because we're not. You turn it on and off like a switch. Call it whinning. I don't really give a flying $hit. It is not what I expected being a pilot in the USAF would be like. Agree with me or not, that's my opinion. Not everyone in the AF bleeds blue. Lifestyle in the military varies greatly per given airframe and it seems like the airlift guys get more consistent flying, but for us, I don't think that we do.

 

[RampFreeze]

First off, in every flying organization I've been in, civil and military, there are two types of pilots - those who strive to be "master aviators" and always strive to learn as much as they can about the trade, refine their skills, etc. and then there are the slugs who are just plain lucky to be sitting in some highly sought after real estate. Attitude is contagious... Nuff Said.

Secondly, you honestly have no idea how lucky you are with respect to flying hours. I think it is a fairly certain bet that you have only flown the KC-135 in a post-2001 world. 200 hours/year was the norm not too long ago. When you don't fly as much as you'd like it is incumbent upon you to use your personal time to study flying, chair fly, etc. to make the most of your precious hours aloft. Guys did it in the start air and tanker world when they were only flying 200 hrs/year, I think you can do it to when you are flying 600.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

When you don't fly as much as you'd like it is incumbent upon you to use your personal time to study flying, chair fly, etc. to make the most of your precious hours aloft. .

Wow that is an incredible statement.

Personally I like spending my personal time with my family.

Addressing the thread starter: If your motivation is to serve your country, that is great and by all means join the service and try for a pilot slot.

If your motivation is simply getting free flight training, I don't think the 10 year commitment for 500 to 600 hrs a year is worth it.

Professional civilian pilots in most realms fly waaaay more than they would like to. Our concentration is trying to NOT fly rather than finding ways TO fly.

Simple decision if you truly know what your motivation is.

 

[Pistlpetet]

RampFreeze, Good point about the post 911 environment. Tankerdriver, you would really have hated the Clinton years (Why so many Punched).

I can totally understand what you are talking about the difference of maintaining "currency", and maintaining "proficiency", and I think it is something that has effected EVERY military pilot at one point in his career, whether it was the fault of bad timing, Commanders or Units.

Regardless of how you want to break down your flight time (Operational,Training, etc), it is still time and experience that you are getting in your logbook, and will make no difference in how it was logged when in the future you will be applying for a job. I am also sure that you are not going to volunteering to fly a CRJ at a Regional because you did not not get the proper training, or experience to really be a pilot.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Wow that is an incredible statement.

Personally I like spending my personal time with my family.
quote]

Obviously a total civilian pilot mentality.

It is like this. If you don't study on your own personal time, you will most likely not keep your pilot job in the military, or be prepared.

Just like you can't imagine planning/studying for 3-4 days to fly a 2 hour mission.