Air Force Fighter Pilot Shortage

[Wesb737fo]

That is because a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Robert Lovett, WWII Asst Sec of War for Air, may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality.

We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He would prove that college was not needed to fly an airplane. He had a test devised that would identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training.

He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.

Those tests are stlll pretty much the same as used today to screen military pilots.

Not totally disagreeing with your thesis or embarrass you. Bong, McGuire and Johnson were college boys. Johnnie was a civil engineer. Yeager was the country boy and I'm sure there are a lot more examples, just can't think of any more off hand. cheers

 

[pilotyip]

Not totally disagreeing with your thesis or embarrass you. Bong, McGuire and Johnson were college boys. Johnnie was a civil engineer. Yeager was the country boy and I'm sure there are a lot more examples, just can't think of any more off hand. cheers

By 1943 the average pilot coming out of the training pipeline was 20 years old, many were 19, G W. Bush I was 18. They may have had some college but they were not college graduates.

Their performance should leave no doubdts in anyone's mind about how non-college graduates perform in the cockpit.

My PCC flying around Vietnam in 1968 was not a college garduate, no one can he was not one the finest piltos I ever flew with. Not only in stick and rudder skills, but in cockpit leadership. He went on to a fantasic career at Delta airlines.

 

[dicko]

The British and the Australians do not require a College degree to fly fighters. They do require good grades in High Scool Math and Physics. In those countries High Scool courses in those subjects have a standard equal to first year University courses here. I'm not saying its a better or worse system; just different.

Here's an example of a modern High School graduate fighter pilot. The book will make you cry laughing. If you look closely at the hero shot on the front cover, you'll notice he's wearing gold Elvis sunglasses under the visor

http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Pilot-Mis-Adventures-Australian-ebook/dp/B008N4HY0E

 

[AdlerDriver]

Looks they will have to drop that college degree requirement to avoid the shortage. I mean after all, Bong, McGuire, Yeager, and Johnson, all aces, did not have college degrees.

The degree requirement isn't to fly aircraft for the military. It's to be commissioned as an officer. It just so happens that for the last, at least 50 years (give or take), the US military has only allowed officers to be trained as pilots.

I'm sure there are plenty of non-college grads who would be great pilots. The reality is that a military pilot is an officer and leader first. Short of battlefield commissions, you're not going to see non-college grads become officers in today's military.

 

[pilotyip]

The degree requirement isn't to fly aircraft for the military. It's to be commissioned as an officer. It just so happens that for the last, at least 50 years (give or take), the US military has only allowed officers to be trained as pilots.

Well not completely true, 45 years ago flying around Vietnam my PPC was a LTJG with only two years of college, got out went on to a fantasic career at DAL. In 1981, Secertary of the Navy Leman dropped the college degree requirement for Navy pilots and NFO's and went back to the Cadet program. And of course the Army has been cranking out pilots for years without a degree. BTW From my expereince a college degree also has nothing to do with leadership

 

[AdlerDriver]

Well not completely true, 45 years ago flying around Vietnam my PPC was a LTJG with only two years of college, got out went on to a fantasic career at DAL. In 1981, Secertary of the Navy Leman dropped the college degree requirement for Navy pilots and NFO's and went back to the Cadet program. And of course the Army has been cranking out pilots for years without a degree. BTW From my expereince a college degree also has nothing to do with leadership

You can split hairs if you like. IMO, 45 years falls in the "give or take" slop. I know there were a few oddball situations in the 60's. The title and subject of this thread, however, is fighter pilots. I don't put rotary wing and fighters in the same category, so I really don't care what the Army does - they don't operate fighters.
Can a person go out today and join the services that fly fighters and get commissioned as an officer therein without a college degree? No - so they may have all the natural flying talent in the world but that doesn't matter if they can't get past the first hurdle.

As far as leadership - I agree, simply attending college doesn't magically instill leadership skills. Officer candidates are given leadership training during the course of their curriculum at the service academies and ROTC. Success in college is just another layer in the filter. It's been a long standing requirement for commission and probably gives some indication of an individual's ability to discipline and apply himself in whatever specialty he chooses to pursue in the military.

 

[Paradoxus]

Pilotyip is correct in all respects. I can't think of any degreed aviator that I know with a particularly scholarly-bearing. Most seem to be readily-equipped with an deplorable penchant for dick-and-fart jokes and think Claire Chennault is a brand of hair gel.

 

[pilotyip]

You can split hairs if you like. IMO, 45 years falls in the "give or take" slop. I know there were a few oddball situations in the 60's. The title and subject of this thread, however, is fighter pilots. I don't put rotary wing and fighters in the same category, so I really don't care what the Army does - they don't operate fighters.
Can a person go out today and join the services that fly fighters and get commissioned as an officer therein without a college degree? No - so they may have all the natural flying talent in the world but that doesn't matter if they can't get past the first hurdle.

As far as leadership - I agree, simply attending college doesn't magically instill leadership skills. Officer candidates are given leadership training during the course of their curriculum at the service academies and ROTC. Success in college is just another layer in the filter. It's been a long standing requirement for commission and probably gives some indication of an individual's ability to discipline and apply himself in whatever specialty he chooses to pursue in the military.

Sounds like fighter pilot envy. The Army pilots don't count kinda of gave it away. A quick fighter pilot story, it is 1976; we have been at sea for 6 weeks. We being Ships' Company, "the career enhancing tour". We pull back in to Cubi Point. We are at the club for liquid refreshment. We are discussing "going ugly early?. You know all women are beautiful when you have not seen one in six weeks, "we kept women recognition photos in our staterooms so we recognize one when we saw one". This one fighter pilot was making moves on the ugliest creature you had ever seen, round eyed school teacher. So we decided that going ugly early did not apply to fighter?s pilots that had no standards. Another fighter pilot over heard this and said he was offended, kinda like people on this board hearing about the college thing. He said we should respect him because he was the defender of the fleet and how he would be the first one launched to intercept an incoming air raid, etc. Please we are sitting in a bar in the Philippines, enjoying a beer far removed from reality, thinking about women and this fighter pilot gets all bent out of shape because we made a joke about fighter pilot standards when making moves on women. He never understood. BTW the Threat from a submarine was much greater than the airborne threat, but we didn't bring that he would not have understood that either.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Both of you seem to have tunnel vision. I'm agreeing with you!!

I don't think it's necessary to attend college in order to be a good pilot. Period. dot. Okay? I think it might help some and not have much effect on others. It really depend on the person and their strengths/weaknesses.

My engineering degree made UPT easier for me than if I had just gone straight out of high school. Aerodynamics, systems, mental math associated w/ instrument flying all came very naturally as an extension of my college courses. So, I feel like I was better equipped to succeed thanks to my college experience. Was it absolutely necessary for me to get my wings? Probably not - but maybe I wouldn't have done as well and not gone to fighters. I'd rather be a little over-prepared than just scrape by any day.

Either way, this is all moot. Officers have to have a bachelor's degree to get commissioned - and they're the ones who fly fighters(and any other USAF, USN, USMC fixed wing). It's the officer part that requires college. Not the pilot part.

P.S. Yip, We must have posted at the same time because I just saw your last post. I don't understand your fighter envy comment and your whole story doesn't seem to have much relevance to what you and I were posting about (other than this whole thing started with a post about a fighter pilot shortage).

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Rotary wing guys have more piloting skills overall than fighter pilots.