Air Force Academy Welfare Pilots

[Bally]

Among the best things about being a pilot is to work with so many people who because of their passion for flying, busted their butt and paid some heavy dues to get the experience to be hired at a major. Working with guys and gals who flew sorties over Baghdad or instructed for 1500 hours and worked at a commuter to get the time needed to make it to a major is very impressive and it is cool to work with these professionals.

After being at a major for about two years, I have come across an interesting form of creature that I will call the “academy welfare pilot”. I just flew with a guy whose goal was to be an airline pilot so he went to the Air Force Academy. He actually admitted that the only reason he attended the academy was to have the U.S. taxpayer pay for his college degree and all his flight training. Since his goal was to be an airline pilot, he bid the KC 135 so he would not be in harms way and get flight time as soon as possible. He also admitted that he hated military life. With the early out option from the Air Force, he was out in five years with his entire college and flight training paid for by the US taxpayer and the experience to get hired at a major. To top it off, he then got 90% of his Type Rating paid for by the US taxpayer since he was a veteran. Seems to me that the taxpayer donated about about two million dollars to his endevor to become an airline pilot.

While you would think that this guy would be saying what a wonderful country America is, for the month I flew with this piece of work, he did nothing but complain about how the Company is not paying him enough even though we are the highest paid pilots in the industry, that working 2.5 days per week was too much, and when we got an unscheduled airplane swap before our last leg, you would have thought they just took his first born.

While I am incredibly grateful for those who serve in the military and those who go to the Academy in an honest desire to serve our County, those whose only goal is to have the government pay for their college degree and all their flight training with the intent to become an airline pilot is as far as I am concerned equivalent to a welfare hack sitting on the porch waiting for food stamps sucking off the Government nipple. It is amazing how many of these guys I have flown with and it is even more interesting that some of them have the arrogance to brag how smart they are.

 

[TigerDriver]

what do you expect from someone from the US govt. playschool in Colorado Springs, and someone from a place where the doolies are recognized in march. All the way to Herndon baby!
GO NAVY

 

[pilotgolfer]

. To top it off, he then got 90% of his Type Rating paid for by the US taxpayer since he was a veteran. Seems to me that the taxpayer donated about about two million dollars to his endevor to become an airline pilot.


Academy grads are not eligible to have GI Bill pay any portion of the type rating. If you want to stir the pot, at least get your facts correct.

 

[Andy Neill]

. To top it off, he then got 90% of his Type Rating paid for by the US taxpayer since he was a veteran. Seems to me that the taxpayer donated about about two million dollars to his endevor to become an airline pilot.


Academy grads are not eligible to have GI Bill pay any portion of the type rating.

How would the DVA know he is eligible or not. Is there a designation on the DD214 or something?

 

[pilotyip]

Hats off to'em. He is a hero in my book. He also could have had the needs of service assign him a MH-60 flying around the sandbox at night at low level. He could have been killed while serving a combat zone. It is a risk everyone takes in the service. He is no more a welfare pilot than a ROTC or any service sponsored college program recipient. These are open to everyone. If it is such a good deal go down and join up.

 

[pilotgolfer]

How would the DVA know he is eligible or not. Is there a designation on the DD214 or something?

The DD214 shows that your place of entry to Active duty was Colorado Springs. And besides that the DVA asks you if you were an Academy grad.

 

[pilotgolfer]

sorry, double posted.

 

[Murphy]

While I am incredibly grateful for those who serve in the military and those who go to the Academy in an honest desire to serve our County, those whose only goal is to have the government pay for their college degree and all their flight training with the intent to become an airline pilot is as far as I am concerned equivalent to a welfare hack sitting on the porch waiting for food stamps sucking off the Government nipple. It is amazing how many of these guys I have flown with and it is even more interesting that some of them have the arrogance to brag how smart they are.

Okay, I'll bite. Don't put us Academy graads all in the same shoebox. At 18 and not really sure what I wanted to do, my goals were probably similar to his. Qualify to get an appointment to the Academy, graduate, go to flight school, serve my 7 year commitment, and see where I am at. Everytime my commitment was up, I stayed and ended up making it a career. Did I ever see combat...nope. First Gulf War, teaching people to fly in Enid Oklahoma. Bosnia...Flying an EC-135 and doing the nuclear deterrence mission for Strategic Command. Kosovo, staff job at Langley Air Force Base for HQ Air Combat Command. Post 9-11, flying govt officials at Andrews. Now, swinging gear as a First Officer for AirTran and enjoying life.

 

[DAL737FO]

I've flown with many guys that knew that they wanted to be an airline pilot before going to an academy. Good for them, at least they knew what they wanted and went for it. I would think that there were/are easier ways to get a college education and flight training without the four years of harrasment and the five year commitment to the military after.

What do you think about the guys that have mommy and daddy send them through one of the many puppy mills down in Florida to go from 0 hours to airline pilot for the low, low price of (insert current rate here).

Everyone pays their dues differently. Some more and longer than others. But to label a group Academy welfare pilots, boy I sure would hate to hear what you call guard babies.

 

[instructordude]

The Army Air Force Academy is pretty much an embarrasment. All I ever hear about the place is stuff like this or sex scandals.

 

[Murphy]

The Army Air Force Academy is pretty much an embarrasment. All I ever hear about the place is stuff like this or sex scandals.

Why don't you apply. Maybe some male cadet will make you your bitch. Just remember to not kiss and tell.

 

[CheyDogFlies]

Academy grads are not eligible to have GI Bill pay any portion of the type rating. If you want to stir the pot, at least get your facts correct.

Not true, my friend.
If you were a USAFA grad, went to pilot training, and took the early out at say $100K before taxes...If you went to the AFRES, you are now eligible for the GI Bill, and can get most of that type rating paid for. Yes, enough to make some of us sick. But all legal. And do I blame anyone?

No. Just dumb luck that it worked out so well for them. There's nothing wrong with going to USAFA just to have the goal of being a commercial pilot someday, as long as you follow all the rules they give you along the way. Just dumb luck.

 

[Black Hawk]

Hats off to'em. He is a hero in my book. He also could have had the needs of service assign him a MH-60 flying around the sandbox at night at low level. He could have been killed while serving a combat zone. It is a risk everyone takes in the service. He is no more a welfare pilot than a ROTC or any service sponsored college program recipient. These are open to everyone. If it is such a good deal go down and join up.

I'll second that. Anyone that competes and earns a slot in any of military academies and fulfills their commitment to serve is OK in my book.

 

[retired guy]

The Army Air Force Academy is pretty much an embarrasment. All I ever hear about the place is stuff like this or sex scandals.

What the he!! is "The Army Air Force Academy"?

 

[Andy]

Academy grads are not eligible to have GI Bill pay any portion of the type rating. If you want to stir the pot, at least get your facts correct.

Just to make sure that we are factually correct, MOST Academy Grads aren't eligible for the GI Bill.
I was prior enlisted when I entered the Academy and had already paid into the GI Bill by the time that I entered the Academy. In fact, the GI bill paid for my Commercial Single Engine. I ended up getting my CFI and ATP after that without using the GI Bill; I found that the cost of a 141 school was more for me than just going to some fly by night part 61 operator who churns out freshly minted pilots.



To the original poster, don't stereotype. Not all of us who went to the Academy had dreams of flying for the airlines; it's just that sometimes that's the way that things work out.
Personally, I wanted to fly a fighter. During UPT, I nicknamed my left fist Armour and my right fist Hormel. ... I was disappointed to get a KC-135, but was happy just to survive UPT. It wasn't a picnic.

As for a KC-135 flying out of harm's way, I beg to differ. I was sent to Al Dhafra, UAE right after Saddam rolled into Kuwait. We flew orbits ~20 miles off of the Kuwait border with our mission being to refuel the bulk of the US fighters in the gulf ... off of the Independence. The KC-135 has no RWR gear and we had no AWACS giving us a threat picture. It would've been easy to schwack us with an F-1 flying low across the desert floor and popping up below us.
I rotated out before the Storm, but some of my squadron buddies had refueling tracks DEEP in Iraq during the initial push - a few KC-135s were considered more expendable than F-117s.

 

[727C47]

He served,end of story

 

[MountainFreak]

I've seen some ignorant posts, but this one is near the top of the heap.

First, to piggyback on what Andy and a few others have said, the tanker does NOT keep you out of harms way. I was also in Saudi about 10 days after the invasion, and I personally had to bug out more than once after the Iraqis waited for the F-15s to RTB, and they vectored the F-1's and Migs directly on our aircraft at high speed. We called ourselves "Mig Bait". Many of my buds were in Riyadh getting SCUD attacked every night, donning chem gear, and hearing the SCUD/Patriot debris hit the roof, only to get up every day and fly more refueling missions over Iraq (Strawberry track ring a bell?)

Second, what do you care what his motivation to serve is? The point is HE SERVED. From what I gather, that is more than you can say. He is just as much at risk as the guy/gal out there who signs up for mom and apple pie. Maybe this guy complains a lot, but that has nothing to do with his accomplishments.

Finally, to Instructordude: Please be careful about what or whom you proclaim to be an "embarassment". I don't have the command of the English language to come up with an appropriate response, so I am left with this timeless quote (attributed sometimes to either Mark Twain or Lincoln); “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

 

[Deuce130]

Dam, looks like I'm a welfare pilot. After 13 years hard work to qualify for an appointment to the zoo, after 4 years of busting my butt there, after one year of hard work at UPT, another year at RTU, and 8 years of working and studying my a** off in AFSOC to be a good copilot, Aircraft commander, evaluator pilot, weapons school grad, IDE selectee, 500 hours of combat time and five deployments, I decided to get out and join the airlines. I'd like to thank the American taxpayer for funding my type ratings, experience, and hours. Man, I never saw that coming. Me! A welfare case! Thanks, America, and thank you too, Mr. Disgruntled Civilian Airline Pilot Guy!

 

[instructordude]

What the he!! is "The Army Air Force Academy"?

The place where guys learn to fly fast, really fast jets, date their hot Astronautical Profesor but don't salute her, play beach volleyball and etc................:laugh:

 

[Afterprop]

Truth be known . . . as soon as I was accepted into the zoo, at the bar I used to hang out, they started calling me Tax Burden . . .

For those who denigrate our military bro's & sister's service: KMFA. (This isn't to say our academies don't have issues; they do. They are a reflection of our society; as they should be . . . not a glorified senator's son school)

A toast to the host . . .