Air Attack/Tanker, Helo Pilots

[f9driver]

Military and Tankers

Avbug, we routinely flew the P-2 with 3 guys in the Reserve. The others were only needed when flying ASW searches, etc. Why are you so swift to smear the military pilots?
Oh, I could learn to fly the a/c at 180-200 and partial flaps. What do you think we did in the military.... fly "canned, Prussian-like rote procedures"? If so many of you guys hadn't got academic deferments or kissed the Docs on the draft physicals maybe you would have learned more about what military pilots do. I have watched P-2s, Stoofs and DC-4's fight fires on many occasions. Have you watched P-2s at 200 ft. on a moonless night flying a tight Mad pattern? You possess the often quoted "legend in your own mind" syndrome. Tell it to your mama or at the bar. There are too many guys on these threads who have been there.

 

[DC4boy]

F9driver, your response is so typical of the mil pilots I have seen trying to get into the tanker biz. "I've seen it done, dosent look too dificult."

Nobody here has smeared Mil pilots. I have the highest respect and admiration for them.

However, thats apples, and this is oranges. Catch my drift?

You dont have the first clue about aerial firefighting, and I dont have the first clue about military flying. I just know what I know.

I dont clearly understand Mad missions, or what that entails. I assume its over the water and in a controlled environment. Comparing apples and oranges again.

Being 26 years old, I missed the draft you were refering to. I wanted to fly in the Navy, but being 6'6" with a C avrage and defective color vision, it was a long shot.

I guess I'll try and wash the "jerk" smell off now........

 

[MTpilot]

Whoa!

This thread has gone terribly wrong. Just take it easy, every pilot knows he's the best in the world, the trick is you're supposed to keep it to yourself.

 

[NookyBooky]

I'm sorry I asked. I had no idea this would turn into a d#ck measuring contest, but let me see if I have this straight. No one type of pilots make good tanker pilots unless of course they are tanker pilots, right?









*Disclaimer for those who might get their panties in a wad: sarcasm is present in the above post.

 

[avbug]

F9driver does indeed display the exact attitude to which I referred...the very reason that so many of his own ilk don't cut it in the industry. I never suggested that he might be unable to do so, but merely that historically, the worst backgrounds for the job are such as his own...for the very reasons he has clearly just demonstrated. One might suppose he would be quite put out to learn that he would be nothing more than a copilot for the next five to ten years on the job...just like everybody else. That's the typical reaction, expected, and demonstrated, by mr. driver.

Yes, the question has been asked, and answered. Usually folks don't like the answer they get...but the facts are indeed, what they are.

I don't believe anybody ever said that merely because someone has a military background they can't do the job...that's not the case. I believe I noted, and have noted before, that even at H&P, the chief pilot, and the owners were former military. They also were the first to state, publically, they'd never hire another airline or military pilot because of the well established track record from folks in that arena...their observations, not mine.

I should note, as an aside, that the chief pilot of an established fractional operation commented to me that the worst applicants he received were airline...he strongly preferred any other applicant. Not a jelousy issue, but a track record issue...and his observation, not mine. Does this mean that airline pilots can't fly? Of course not. Does it mean that airline pilots are somehow something that others are not? Of course not. It is what it is; an observation by an established person in management, and nothing more.

For whatever it's worth, a jet charter operation for whom I flew, one of the largest operators of that aircraft type on that coast, was owned and operated by former career military personnel, both officer and enlisted. Top management was quite adamant that they would never hire another military pilot, or furloughed airline pilot. Just prior to my leaving, they did hire a furloughed pilot, who took their type training, flew one trip, and left to go elsewhere...like the previous six pilots whom they had typed...five military and one airline. Not my observations, but those of folks with have a leg to stand on, with millions of their own dollars invested, who have been burned by the attitudes of those with their own backgrounds. Go figure. But I digress...

I spent five hours working several fires in several states today, working alongside MAFFS units...that's right...military pilots engaged in aerial firefighting. What has that to do with the price of tea in china? Nothing. A poster asked a question, it was answered, and some here didn't like what they heard. Tough. Deal with it.

Now, F9driver has suggested I am displaying a "legend in my own mind" syndrome, though I have said nothing about my own abilities, prowness, or reputation here. Merely stated what is, and what is the case in the industry. I also stated that most wouldn't want to do this work, historically most who do want to do it don't make it in the industry, and that there are no openings for those who do have the desire and could possibly make it. I have a very difficult time making the correlation between these honest answers and being deluded into thinking I am a legend, or that these facts and observations represent any self-inflation...as they don't have anything to do with me at all. This would be instead, an effort by f9driver to cloud the issue with personal attacks; he feels wounded by these observations, has taken them personally for whatever reason, and feels the need to respond at a lower level. So be it. Again, deal with it.

I've been labled here, along with apparently the rest of the industry, as a draft dodger or one who obtained an academic deferrment to military service...again, thanks for the chuckle at that asinine, misplaced attempt at humor. You're the expert, apparently.

Just not at firefighting. Perhaps you ought not try to be.

Oh, I could learn to fly the a/c at 180-200 and partial flaps.

Congratulations. I'm sure you could...though I have no idea what that has to do with the conversation at hand. Do you?

No one type of pilots make good tanker pilots unless of course they are tanker pilots, right?

That would be your observation, and your words, which would at best be an abberation of the discussion. Nobody here said any such thing...except you.

No background is particularly conducive to becoming a tanker pilot, and that's already been stated. Asked and answered. Having a military background will not give you a big step up, a foot in the door. Having a warbird background will not give you a big step up, a foot in the door. Having an airline background will not give you a big step up, a foot in the door. Being persistant, and willing to understand that you're on the same footing along with everybody else, no matter what your background when you start, will be the right attitude with which to approach the industry. Too many pilots who are accustomed to having accolades and respect and epaulets and rank and grade and titles are put out when they learn that they're not a "first officer" but a copilot, and that they'll be getting their hands dirty for a long time to come.

If that's not for you, if you can't accept being on the same standing and status as everybody else, that your honors and background mean nothing and don't impress anybody here, then move on. No harm, no foul. Just so long as you understand before coming in the door what the score is, then you have nothing to worry about. It's a small industry, and folks here will bend over backward to help you, if it's what you want. If it's not what you want, then what do you care? Go do something else, and every one will be much happier for it, least of all, yourself.

If instead, holier-than-thou is your bag, if you feel you have something to teach the industry, if you expect anybody here to be in any way impressed with you or your background, then you're wasting your time, my time, and everyone else's time in this business. No time for that childishness; it's a working job, not a glamorous one, and swagger has no place here. It's a hot, dirty, sweaty, loud and often violent business. You won't win awards, won't get your picture taken, won't be the subject of a ticker tape parade. You'll do your job, collect what you can while you can, and either move on at some point or quietly die of cancer with nothing more to show for your efforts than time in a logbook and some sage advice for those who are willing to listen.

For those who are not, who would rather thrust out their manhood and measure it against their deluded perceptions, the advice is wasted and there is nothing more to offer than a curt nod, and the final counsel, move on, best of luck to you, have a nice life. It's been a pleasure...

 

[rchcfi]

I've never worked as a pilot for an airline, and frankly never want to. I am happy in the corporate world in the winter, and fires in the summer. But for those who were saying that airline pilots are perfect, chew on this:

There has been a NOTAMED temporary ATCT located at a normally uncontrolled field for the last 5 days. And there has been a TFR located over our fire for the same time. ----------- Just about every Skywest Brasilia that lands doesn't realize there is a tower or a TFR. The Skywest pilots have been told to "please advise your Dispatchers there is a temporary tower!" To which one female pilot actually responded, "Oh, I see it here in my packet...OOOOPS! hehehe" So we know dispatch is getting the word out, but the pilots aren't paying attention. And on top of that we have had 2 Brasilias bust our TFR........

True Professionals!

 

[psysicx]

How hard is it for helo pilots to get on? And is the pay the same for fixed wing and rotor?

 

[f9driver]

Avbug & DC-4....The world's greatest pilots

Apparently a psychological, Stanine or any mental test is not required in the tanker pilot business. You two have mile-high egos and hardly any knowledge or respect for the many milititary guys who went before you. The military WAS the early core and backbone of these aviation firefighting outfits..... as it was in the airline business. Microsoft Flight Simulator II has opened the door to almost anybody who has access to a computor and this new "breed" runs around implying they are the greatest.... like Ali. I am glad I am retired and do not have to deal with the new breed that has never read a history book.

 

[avbug]

You continue to prove my point, over and over. If all military pilots had your attitude, then none would be worthy of respect; your attitude is poor and pathetic. Fortunately, far better are to be found in uniform than you. You have nothing to say, nothing to add, are far too defensive, and can only fall back upon personal attacks to prove the point you do not have and cannot make. Truly a sad effort.

Microsoft flight simulator, huh? That's cute.

You want my respect? Earn it. Do you think you are impressive or that I should be impressed by you? Is that your source of self-importance, and do you judge others by the high degree of respect that they accord you? Sorry, bub...you're nothing more than just another acorn fallen from the tree...just like the rest of us. Too bad you can't deal with that.

You're exactly the sort that fails in this business, for the reasons already described, and you just can't wait to make the case to prove that point, as you continue to do. Congratulations.

Actually, the military was NOT the source of the aerial firefighting industry...try again.

 

[f9driver]

Avbug

Okay sonny have it your way.