Age 65: Upside to the downside

[Flopgut]

We do not have unions and do not subject ourselves to a seniority system to provide for small, priviledged classes among us.

We can even this out! ALPA's stated position is to maintain age 60 as normal retirement. The way to do that is maintain highest earnings for those under 60.

Age 60+ employment should be relegated to a B scale-like wage, and they should get no more than a half vote on union issues! Maybe NO vote at all! Maybe even go further?? I don't know...how about your last 5 years go from 50% wage down to new hire wage? Let's wean them off this and get their butts retired!!

Folks, the majority doesn't want this. Let's use that. Hold Prater to the commitment to maintain age 60 as normal retirement in a meaningful way!

 

[BoilerUP]

Even better would be pilot groups contractually requiring all PICs to be under Age 60.

But that ain't gonna happen....

 

[Flopgut]

Even better! AND it's do-able! We've got CBAs that speak to this stuff.

 

[Superpilot92]

If they want this to be fair, then by all means change it but make it to where anyone after the day of signing that gets a commercial ticket can officially work past 60. Everyone else, it stays the same for since everyone of us knew the Airline Retirement age when we got into this.

I think an issue just like this is what has been needed to get our generation of pilots together to work together.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Yup.

[/bendermoden]We're boned[/bendermodeff]

Seriously, expect hiring to screech to a halt while the airlines stop and figure out their staffing.

Especially true at outfits where the ropes have been hiding out on the panel. UPS, FDX and NWA.

Nu

 

[Freight Dog]

None of this stuff will work. The only way for to prevent the windfall and keep it somewhat fair is to require that you cannot be a PIC if you have reached your 60th birthday.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

 

[Bad-Andy]

Even better! AND it's do-able! We've got CBAs that speak to this stuff.

The problem is then the selfish ba$tards will just sue the union for age discrimination and lead us into even more deplorable working conditions. The only way to do it is to report every one of the selfish S.O.B.s to the company and the FAA every time they make a mistake that "COULD" be interpreted as dementia. Get them a fitness for duty eval and canned. The sharp ones stay and the weak ones get weeded out... After all, safety is our main priority (especially for the "Experienced" Captains, right???)

 

[Flopgut]

The problem is then the selfish ba$tards will just sue the union for age discrimination and lead us into even more deplorable working conditions. The only way to do it is to report every one of the selfish S.O.B.s to the company and the FAA every time they make a mistake that "COULD" be interpreted as dementia. Get them a fitness for duty eval and canned. The sharp ones stay and the weak ones get weeded out... After all, safety is our main priority (especially for the "Experienced" Captains, right???)

Oh I agree! I think they should wear the O2 mask continually and have a auto defibulator wired to the hot battery bus strapped to them as well.

But...I DO think we need to hold Prater and ALPA to the stated goal of maintaining age 60 as a viable age for retirement.

Back when we got ambushed with Prater's unilateral change to ALPA's retirement age stance, I started making calls and firing out emials. I had all but dropped any support I had for Prater but the word I got as responses came back was that this would get evened out. It would be ALPA's position that age 60 was normal retirement and collective bargaining should proceed in that spirit. I considered it mostly BS but we couldn't recall anybody at that time. Now that it's come this far, we can get busy with our game plan.

We've had B scales before. We've had members with half votes. It's time to do those things again. We don't need to just go lick the cat's butt...We're the majority!!

 

[Mach 80]

Sacko,

Argue for or against the age 60 thing on other merits, but that chart you posted has been shown to be absolutely false:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4286.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1273451

http://www.speea.org/general_info/files/life.htm

 

[Splert]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

Link please...

Otherwise you are fooling around.

 

[Andy Neill]

Link please...

Otherwise you are fooling around.

Here is the referenced study which for which Mach 80 has provided the counter-arguments:
http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm

 

[Beetle007]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

I don't see the problem? This means I only have to save for 1 1/2 years of retirement. I will be living large =)

 

[relief tube]

Sacko,

Argue for or against the age 60 thing on other merits, but that chart you posted has been shown to be absolutely false:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4286.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1273451

http://www.speea.org/general_info/files/life.htm

What's that saying...."if it's on the internet, it must be true?"

Yeah buddy but this study wasn't considering the lifestyle of airline pilots....I would bet a gun to my head that our lifestyle of commuting/disrupted sleep cycles.... you'll die sooner working more at this job late.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

This one does, and he's an idiot.


http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm