Age 65 Safety Concerns

[Mamma]

I was reading Jon Jordan's (FAA Flight Surgeon) testimony before congress in July 2005 and it seems all the FAA's safety concerns were swept right under the carpet...or I did not see the assurances. Can anyone help me on this?

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/in...itness_ID=4478

Here are some parts of the testimony from the FAA Surgeon General I did not see addressed:

"The Age-60 rule represents the FAA's best determination of the time when a general decline in health-related functions and overall cognitive and performance capabilities may begin and reach a level where a pilot's judgement and physical ability may begin to decline and therefore jeopardize safety.:" What happened over the last two years that negated this?

"Overall, accident rate increased with pilot age. The patterns of findings across the three empirical studies are similar – there appears to be a relationship between pilot age and accident rate. The consistency of this finding across the three empirical studies suggests that changes to the Age 60 rule should be approached cautiously." Really? I was told that safety and the age 65 rule have nothing to do with one another. It was just discrimination.

"Modifying the long-standing baseline of age 60 in the U.S. requires that the public be shown how such modification would maintain an equivalent level of safety." Not done.

"What is also clear is that the question for the FAA is one of public safety and determining acceptable risk. At this time, the FAA cannot be assured that changing the Age-60 rule will maintain or raise the level of safety. " What changed over the last two years to allow this? What assurance did the FAA receive? I for one have not heard these assurances!

I am not trying to flame or piss anyone off. I will throw out that I disagree with the rule for my own selfish advancement purposes but I also disagree with it in that I "feel" safety concerns were not fully addressed. Sure some guys could fly circles around me at 75 years old but that is not the point. This is a question of risk factor for the overall group. I for one have noticed a significant difference in my father who is now 67 and other family members at his age. He has significantly slowed down in the last 5 years. Heck, you should see him drive! Anyway, thought I would throw this out.

 

[pilotyip]

There is another study that shows there is no conclusive data on over 60 pilots. Because there is no 121 data base to search.

 

[Spooky 2]

I was reading Jon Jordan's (FAA Flight Surgeon) testimony before congress in July 2005 and it seems all the FAA's safety concerns were swept right under the carpet...or I did not see the assurances. Can anyone help me on this?

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/in...itness_ID=4478

Here are some parts of the testimony from the FAA Surgeon General I did not see addressed:

"The Age-60 rule represents the FAA's best determination of the time when a general decline in health-related functions and overall cognitive and performance capabilities may begin and reach a level where a pilot's judgement and physical ability may begin to decline and therefore jeopardize safety.:" What happened over the last two years that negated this?

"Overall, accident rate increased with pilot age. The patterns of findings across the three empirical studies are similar – there appears to be a relationship between pilot age and accident rate. The consistency of this finding across the three empirical studies suggests that changes to the Age 60 rule should be approached cautiously." Really? I was told that safety and the age 65 rule have nothing to do with one another. It was just discrimination.

"Modifying the long-standing baseline of age 60 in the U.S. requires that the public be shown how such modification would maintain an equivalent level of safety." Not done.

"What is also clear is that the question for the FAA is one of public safety and determining acceptable risk. At this time, the FAA cannot be assured that changing the Age-60 rule will maintain or raise the level of safety. " What changed over the last two years to allow this? What assurance did the FAA receive? I for one have not heard these assurances!

I am not trying to flame or piss anyone off. I will throw out that I disagree with the rule for my own selfish advancement purposes but I also disagree with it in that I "feel" safety concerns were not fully addressed. Sure some guys could fly circles around me at 75 years old but that is not the point. This is a question of risk factor for the overall group. I for one have noticed a significant difference in my father who is now 67 and other family members at his age. He has significantly slowed down in the last 5 years. Heck, you should see him drive! Anyway, thought I would throw this out.

Well this is not very scientific but we can look back in five and see how many accidents were the result of over 60 age pilots. We need to come up with some formula that dings the over crowd for every incident/accident and then weigh it against every incident/accident for the less than 60 crowd. Of course there will be more pilots in the less than 60 crowd than above so we need to find a sliding scale so we can get a weighted average for these guys on both sides of the issue. I'm making book right now so if anyone has a hundred to throw in a secure escrow type of account lets get on with it. Maybe we can have the moderators at FI escrow the money for us.

 

[Mamma]

There is another study that shows there is no conclusive data on over 60 pilots. Because there is no 121 data base to search.

Exactly! The American Airlines pilot group, and the FAA Surgeon General both say there is an association but not conclusive data....this is a big unknown! Common sense tells us that at a certain age things start to go. This law was rammed through with NO DEBATE! I think this must be one of the fastest laws enacted with no study, questions or anything for that matter! ALPA is supposed to stand first and foremost for safety and I think they failed miserably on this note. If there was an enhanced flight physical developed for folks over 60 then I would be placated. I still do not like the law for selfish advancement purposes but that is life. I just don't think there should be a blanket rule allowing any pilot over 65 to fly 121. This is just my opinion and I may be wrong.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

People get slower as they get older. Live in Florida for awhile, just watch the geezers stare at the 15 ham selections at the Publix Deli or drive home to fall asleep after an early bird dinner, turn signal left on of course.

I seen the same thing happen to guys in the left seat.

 

[jhill]

Well this is not very scientific but we can look back in five and see how many accidents were the result of over 60 age pilots. We need to come up with some formula that dings the over crowd for every incident/accident and then weigh it against every incident/accident for the less than 60 crowd. Of course there will be more pilots in the less than 60 crowd than above so we need to find a sliding scale so we can get a weighted average for these guys on both sides of the issue. I'm making book right now so if anyone has a hundred to throw in a secure escrow type of account lets get on with it. Maybe we can have the moderators at FI escrow the money for us.

Hey idiot, in 5 years what difference will it make? we will be back to the exact same retirement situation we are in now.

 

[Spooky 2]

People get slower as they get older. Live in Florida for awhile, just watch the geezers stare at the 15 ham selections at the Publix Deli or drive home to fall asleep after an early bird dinner, turn signal left on of course.

I seen the same thing happen to guys in the left seat.

Only the stupid people live in FL. If you told me you were from FL I would not hire your dumb ass on a bet!

BTW you probably need another 5 years pulling gear just to get the Big Picture.

 

[Spooky 2]

Hey idiot, in 5 years what difference will it make? we will be back to the exact same retirement situation we are in now.

Weel with all your experience, I can only hope your still sucking gear for some old geezer. DS!

 

[Mamma]

From the FAA website:

When did the FAA decide to consider changing the rule?

The FAA reviewed the Age 60 rule many times over the years. On September 27, 2006, the FAA Administrator established a group of airline, labor and medical experts to recommend whether the United States should adopt the new ICAO standard and determine what actions would be necessary if the FAA were to change its rule. The Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) did not reach a consensus recommendation but did provide detailed insight and analysis that will be helpful as the FAA develops a rule. The FAA Administrator then announced on January 30, 2007 that the FAA would move forward to issue a rule that would raise the age to 65, a rulemaking project that would take 18-months to two-years to complete.
Why was it going to take the FAA so long to change the rule?

The Administrative Procedures Act requires a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), and a public comment period before a final rule could be issued. The FAA had planned to have a proposal out for comment by the end of 2007.

Did they abide by the Admin Procedures Act and was there a public comment period out at the end of 2007? I did not hear about it but that does not mean it did not occur.

 

[PCL_128]

Only the stupid people live in FL.

So which part of Florida do you live in?