Age 65 Impact On Attrition

[waveflyer]

Now that we've had age 65 for a while:
is there any preliminary data to how it has affected attrition?
How many 60+ have been unable to get a medical?
How many have chosen to retire?
How many have dropped off their productivity and by how much?
What changes to medical requirements have been made, or proposed?

Is anyone in any of the unions keeping data on this?
I would imagine the company would want this info to plan.

For those on the furlough lists, fuel coming down has helped, and wondering if any additional warm fuzzies could be got from the reality of age 65.

 

[Sy-bill]

Seven months is hardly enough time accurately answer most of your questions.

Give it another four and a half years to get data.

 

[LearLove]

hey "generation baby boomer greed" doesn't care.

I've yet to fly with a capt over here at mainline who is under 50.

While I haven't had many in depth conversations on the subject I get the feeling that all but 1 (maybe 2) want to fly until 65. (read - only one capt out of 10 in the last 2 months indicated he will hang it up at 60 and this guy is 54) Granted he is the only capt I've had an "in depth" conversation on the subject with.

I get the feeling from things said here and there on most trips that other capts I fly with plan on flying past 60.

Well maybe every capt flying over 60 should have the name of a furloughed guy tatooed on his forehead and 30 % of the capts gross pay should go to the furloughee.

 

[N1kawotg]

I agree most of the capt i fly with that are 59+ say they'll prob go only to 62-when s.s. kicks in. Of course when its easy money, I believe it when I see it.

 

[Flybet3]

I agree most of the capt i fly with that are 59+ say they'll prob go only to 62-when s.s. kicks in. Of course when its easy money, I believe it when I see it.

Many of these idiots are the same ones that said at 56 they would retire before 60. But lets face it, who would want to give up that much money every year.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And you can bet the same ******************************bags are already working on raising it above 65 with the ultimate goal of no mandatory retirement ageuke:

Many of these idiots are the same ones that said at 56 they would retire before 60. But lets face it, who would want to give up that much money every year.

 

[Flopgut]

The ERW (early retirement window) at CAL provides some insight IMHO. We could not really talk about it until it closed yesterday. We did not reach the 251+ number we needed to trigger the full 100k company payout. We had a decent number, I guess. My point is if guys were actually serious about only going to 62 then we would have surpassed 251 ERWs. That 100k paid out over 24 months pretty much made a pilot whole at 62. So I think we can regard more than half these guys who say 62 as full of crap.

 

[tie1on]

the age change at cal caused 0 reitirements out of a possbile 281. yep it hurt everyone, but it helped the flight instructors at cal come back to the line..

no one wanted to remove these guys 3 years ago when a resolution was made. so now cal is furloughing the new guys.


thanks you old F*****s

 

[Tejas-Jet]

In 2 months you will be in the voting booth and have the opportunity to let your congressman know how you feel about his vote on the Age 65...or non-vote.

You will also have the opportunity to let your Senators know how you felt about their "Unanimous consent" vote that made it all happen.

Remember...they are the ones that truly made the age change happen.

 

[likeitis]

In 2 months you will be in the voting booth and have the opportunity to let your congressman know how you feel about his vote on the Age 65...or non-vote.

You will also have the opportunity to let your Senators know how you felt about their "Unanimous consent" vote that made it all happen.

Remember...they are the ones that truly made the age change happen.

No, you baby boomers worst generation cry babies did it. Nearly all of the representatives are baby boomers who were just doing what they do best, destroy this country through selfishness. The gen-xer's and y's will spend most of their adult lives paying for finding alternative fuel's, repairing a failing infrastructure, reversing global warming, fixing social security, cleaning the water supply, stopping genocide and curing many diseases that should have had much more urgency by our prior generation.

 

[Andy Neill]

The gen-xer's and y's will spend most of their adult lives paying for finding alternative fuel's, repairing a failing infrastructure, reversing global warming, fixing social security, cleaning the water supply, stopping genocide and curing many diseases that should have had much more urgency by our prior generation.

I just want you to know we're all counting on you....and good luck.

 

[Flopgut]

In 2 months you will be in the voting booth and have the opportunity to let your congressman know how you feel about his vote on the Age 65...or non-vote.

You will also have the opportunity to let your Senators know how you felt about their "Unanimous consent" vote that made it all happen.

Remember...they are the ones that truly made the age change happen.

Whatever. Believe this: Nobody is going to take their eyes off you guys! You´ll be back in the cookie jar while we try to handle things politically.

BTW; what makes you think that will do much good? I will vote of course, but Im smart enough to know that ANY politician is not likely to miss the chance to divide and conquer airline labor. We have the APA strike as a shining example of that. All that was needed to further diminish this profession was for guys like you to do what you did. You stood apart from the profession and instead stood for yourself. That sort of thing transcends affiliations.

No, the real worry is you and your generation. First generation to not pay it forward in our nations history.

So if you want to do something to help then hang this up when you have had your fair share. And encourage others to do the same. CAL and CALALPA just made that offer to our old pilots and they snubbed their noses at it.

 

[sean67]

Whatever. Believe this: Nobody is going to take their eyes off you guys! You´ll be back in the cookie jar while we try to handle things politically.

BTW; what makes you think that will do much good? I will vote of course, but Im smart enough to know that ANY politician is not likely to miss the chance to divide and conquer airline labor. We have the APA strike as a shining example of that. All that was needed to further diminish this profession was for guys like you to do what you did. You stood apart from the profession and instead stood for yourself. That sort of thing transcends affiliations.

No, the real worry is you and your generation. First generation to not pay it forward in our nations history.

So if you want to do something to help then hang this up when you have had your fair share. And encourage others to do the same. CAL and CALALPA just made that offer to our old pilots and they snubbed their noses at it.

Well said! We're the first generation to live a lesser qol than our parents.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Well said! We're the first generation to live a lesser qol than our parents.

That's because few of us work as hard as our parents did.

 

[sleeves]

That's because few of us work as hard as our parents did.

Give me a break. The Me generation had far better opportunities than any other generation ever.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Give me a break. The Me generation had far better opportunities than any other generation ever.

Here's something else for you to whine about, the pioneers got free land!

 

[donvag]

Give me a break. The Me generation had far better opportunities than any other generation ever.

yeah sure.... Its easy to say that when your generation's college could be entirely paid for by the Pell Grant.
Nowadays we graduate college with $60k+ of debt.
Your generation had the oportunity of living the "american dream" and becomming home owners...Nowadays...not so much.

Some of us have problems starting a family because we are waiting to pay of some debts (like college) and once we start getting busy, we have to go through medical procedures because nature isnt working cause we waited too long in order to be financially stable for our unborn chinldren.

If anyone is generation ME its baby boomers.

 

[Skippy]

need some way to decrease the effect of age 65

funny how quick the age 65 got thru so quick, but yet we still have to fly on the proven unsafe and antiquated FAA rest requirements---- if they dropped them to a max 12 hour duty day for a 2 man crew , it might at least save some possible furloughees and some who collect unemployment-- heaven forbid the govmnt propose a win-win situation.

just waiting for the letter- or enote as the case may be.

SKIPPY

 

[The Victors]

It's time to move on fellas. Was the timing of the age change really bad? Yes. Does it suck? Yes. Did it cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yes. Is there anything we can do about it? No.

 

[JungleJett]

funny how quick the age 65 got thru so quick, but yet we still have to fly on the proven unsafe and antiquated FAA rest requirements---- if they dropped them to a max 12 hour duty day for a 2 man crew , it might at least save some possible furloughees and some who collect unemployment-- heaven forbid the govmnt propose a win-win situation.

just waiting for the letter- or enote as the case may be.

SKIPPY

Have no fear, ALPA is working hard on the fatigue issue. You will soon (next 10-20 years) see some results. Now that they have sold the entire industry up the river with the age 65 thing, they will have plenty of time to work on it and other important issues..like raising your dues while JP makes over 400K a year.

Or the airlines could take it upon themselves to implement their own policies to mitigate fatigue...oh wait, the airlines cannot find their asses with both hands. Disregard.

Am I bitter? Used to be...not anymore.....change of scenery took care of that.

 

[DH2WN]

funny how quick the age 65 got thru so quick, but yet we still have to fly on the proven unsafe and antiquated FAA rest requirements---- if they dropped them to a max 12 hour duty day for a 2 man crew , it might at least save some possible furloughees and some who collect unemployment-- heaven forbid the govmnt propose a win-win situation.

just waiting for the letter- or enote as the case may be.

SKIPPY

Simple solution. Vote Obama and it will ensure those over 60 guys will be paying a lot of taxes. I know quite a few FOs who just want to stick it to the lead age 65 guy over here and are voting Obama to see him whine about his millions being taxed.

 

[waveflyer]

ok
too soon for data- but it wasn't meant for flame.
how about us gen x and y's just get more involved and put our own stamp on the process instead of complaining about what "happened" to us.

But for info- Does anyone know any age 60+ guys have failed the medical?

 

[Spooky 2]

ok
too soon for data- but it wasn't meant for flame.
how about us gen x and y's just get more involved and put our own stamp on the process instead of complaining about what "happened" to us.

But for info- Does anyone know any age 60+ guys have failed the medical?

No but I know a lot of 30 and 40 year olds that have. Genetics is like bad karma for some folks.

 

[Flopgut]

I don't know if failed medicals by over age 60 pilots will have any bearing or not when CAL's three on duty heart attacks in 2007 had zero influence.

BTW Spooky: The heart attack sufferers weren't in their 30s-and 40s. Interesting you show up to crow about unhealthy/unfortunate young pilots and impune their health/safety record, but you completely ignore actual heart attacks?!

 

[Spooky 2]

I don't know if failed medicals by over age 60 pilots will have any bearing or not when CAL's three on duty heart attacks in 2007 had zero influence.

BTW Spooky: The heart attack sufferers weren't in their 30s-and 40s. Interesting you show up to crow about unhealthy/unfortunate young pilots and impune their health/safety record, but you completely ignore actual heart attacks?!

Not crowing about anything as serious as one's personal health, so if you took it as a hit, please forgive me. My point was that most of those that I have known with serious heart conditions were well below the age of 60. Don't know anything about the CAL issues? Also, don't have a dog in this fight so good night and I'll butt out now.

 

[Flopgut]

Spooky: Please do butt out. Sorry, but your input here is of no use on this issue.

Now, if there were a thread topic on what this gig was like when you started out (I'm guessing an unpressurized airplane with spark plugs) I'd be delighted to listen and you would have my full attention.

 

[Furloughed80]

Well CAL was supposed to retire about 200 pilots in 2008. Instead, we are losing 150 pilots due to early retirement; 50 short of the amount we were supposed to retire if age 60 stayed. That is actually not too bad. However, in the next 4 years we may see little to no movement at all; unless a potential bankruptcy threatens the A-fund.

 

[Spooky 2]

Spooky: Please do butt out. Sorry, but your input here is of no use on this issue.

Now, if there were a thread topic on what this gig was like when you started out (I'm guessing an unpressurized airplane with spark plugs) I'd be delighted to listen and you would have my full attention.

So sorry I guess I should not confuse you with the facts. Must be some older guy doing your "old" lady as you sure get upset over nothing.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I know quite a few FOs who just want to stick it to the lead age 65 guy over here and are voting Obama to see him whine about his millions being taxed.

Yeah, but he'll still have a job.

Are those same F/O's doing anything to make sure that their congressional representatives get to go home for good in November? More than just voting? Phone calls? Volunteering for the opponents campaign? Donating $$ to that camapign?

Remember every vote in the House was a "yes" vote...and 45 Representatives chose not to even vote at all.

And in the Senate...they voted "Unanimous Consent" for this to pass.

 

[Flopgut]

So sorry I guess I should not confuse you with the facts. Must be some older guy doing your "old" lady as you sure get upset over nothing.

Easy old timer. You wouldn't know a [current] fact from a hole in the ground.

Butt out. Like you said you would. We do not need you.

If you want to talk about old planes and better times? I'll listen. Otherwise? You're irrelevant.