Age 65 ICAO Rule – You Might Be Surprised

[Paul R. Smith]

Never said that no one uses VNAV. I said what I have observed. I use it. You use it and so do many others. From what I have seen, more don't than do. I also see some use VS to climb which is a no-no at some places. (Where I am now and where I was) Just my observation!

point: Age65 sux.
Your response: Alot of people don't use vnav and some use VS which btw is a selectable vertical mode but some airlines say its not OK.
WTF?

Duke you need to retire.
Here's mud in your eye!!

 

[Duke of Ale]

Climbing using VS does not give you any speed protection in the aircraft I have flown.Therefore, if you were not paying attention you could stall. That I believe was the reason for not using it while climbing. I fly the CE 750 now and you really have to get pretty slow for it to stall while climbing so it is pretty safe to use. However, it is against policy. And retirement is close!!!!

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Never said that no one uses VNAV. I said what I have observed. I use it. You use it and so do many others. From what I have seen, more don't than do. I also see some use VS to climb which is a no-no at some places. (Where I am now and where I was) Just my observation!

Interesting comments. Just about everyone at AA uses a blend of VNAV and FL Change. It seems like you have a training issue over at your airline.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Flopgut]

And retirement is close!!!!

Did you take the early out?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Hey, look everybody! A dead horse...

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Hey, look everybody! A dead horse...

And I'm gonna beat the ******************** out of that thing until 2012 so just deal with it.

 

[njcapt]

Climbing using VS does not give you any speed protection in the aircraft I have flown.Therefore, if you were not paying attention you could stall. That I believe was the reason for not using it while climbing. I fly the CE 750 now and you really have to get pretty slow for it to stall while climbing so it is pretty safe to use. However, it is against policy. And retirement is close!!!!

McDonnell Douglas procedure for the MD-80 is to use VS for "short climbs" up to 2000ft. "Long climbs" use flight level change. I've been flying the BBJ for two years, the 737-700 for a year before that and the 737-800 for four years before that - all using VNAV. Only one or two elderly retards I flew with were totally confounded by using it, yet managed to use level change successfully.

Way to extrapolate your limited experience to a whole industry, Gramps

 

[Flopgut]

43 w/ int'l experience an unemployed.

Here's the standout post of this thread.

Not cool.

 

[WolfManPack]

The Safety Flag is being waived, because it effects the economics of some. After all greed is bad, but safety, patriotism and motherhood are all feel good and no one could be against safety.

How old do you have to be in order to obtain your ATP again?

I'm sure that's just as discriminating!

How about we just eliminate all age requirements altogether. Heck, if you're 16 and can drive a car then why are we disallowing you to fly an ailiner?

How about we just eliminate any discriminating practices regarding education and training. If you can get in a sim and subsequently pass ur check ride then you must be safe regardless of certification right?

How about we just allow anyone to do anythingh they want without discriminating?

OR, how about we use our common sense and discriminate for the overall safety of the public?

Sounds like a concept that has worked in the past fairly well to me.

But then again that's probably only for the somewhat selfish and untested among us!

Age 60 = Windfall for senior pilots

 

[bluesideup340]

Hey this is FI, stop dealing in reality. You and I know this is not a safety issue, it is an economic issue by the younger pilots.

I agree with most of your posts.
But to be fair, it is an economic issue for older pilot too.
Maybe we should discuss the pay difference between left and right seat, and while at it, how about a merit system rather than seniority?

 

[pilotyip]

merit system

I agree with most of your posts.
But to be fair, it is an economic issue for older pilot too.
Maybe we should discuss the pay difference between left and right seat, and while at it, how about a merit system rather than seniority?

I don’t think you could come up with a merit system that did not have a degree of subjective judgment on the part of person administering the merit program. That could much more unfair than a seniority system

 

[bluesideup340]

I am sure it wouldn't be easy. But how about Police, Fire Fighters, and the Military. If I am not mistaken they use a combination of serniority and testing. Take for example the Colgan accident, maybe a seniority/testing/merit system could have prevented a weak Pilot from becoming a CA and maybe the accident would have never happened.
Last but not least, older Pilots pushed for age 65 for no ohter reason than economics.
Somehow, it is long over due to address the pay gap of 30% between left and right seat.

 

[popgoesbubble]

Hey You 121 guy got nothing on us Frac guy over here at Netjets we got the Bed Pan Brothers flying past 72 here. We have about 30 guys age 68 and older that didn't take the 3 year salary buy out which would have put them at 71. So by that case these guys are all signaling they intend to fly past 72.

If any group needs Age 65 its the fractional way to many retired Legacy guys here that retired well before there pensions where taken away where talking hire date of 99, 2000 mid 2001 prior to 9/11 when they all walked away with there full pensions. One guy in the Citation X is 70 retired NWA 74 captain in 2000 in addition to walking away with his full pension he inherited 3 million from his dead sister he's on our 18 day schedule which pays the most and when the Union and the company where asking pilots to reduce to the 7/7 to save J.O.B's he didn't life a finger to help out.

Yup you gotta love the Baby boomer generation pretty soon where gonna all need to make changes to our company FOM manuals that states that in addition to Cell phones and Blackberry devices that need to be turned off prior to taxi. It will now include Life Alerts as some of our pilots are gonna start needing to carry those things around there necks.

Hopefully that 69 year old retired Navy fighter pilot that got lost over JFK and that other 69 year old King air Charter pilot that died at the controls will cause the FAA to look at Part 135 Ops as well that need to have Age 65 as we fly into the same airports and airspace that the 121 guys do.

 

[pilotyip]

Safety vs Economics

Hopefully that 69 year old retired Navy fighter pilot that got lost over JFK and that other 69 year old King air Charter pilot that died at the controls will cause the FAA to look at Part 135 Ops as well that need to have Age 65 as we fly into the same airports and airspace that the 121 guys do.

Again this looks like the safety flag waving for an economic result. Who is safer in the cockpit a 70 year old pilot with resting pulse of 60 BP of 120/80 and BMI of 22, or the 55 year old special issue medical after coronary by bass surgery, with resting pulse of 100, BP of 140/100, and BMI of 28? BTW At NJ, can't ths union put this in there contract to set a mandorty retirement age that meets a majority of the pilot's desires?

 

[popgoesbubble]

Don't forget the Hearing Aid in each Ear! Yes we have guys here that walk around with Hearing aids not the most professional image you would expect from a company like Netjets which prides itself on Safety and professional image.

I have spoken to the Union about this the sad thing is that a majority of them agree that these guys need to go but this is off record of course as for a union E board member or steward to say this in public well than they really can't say they are there to support the entire group as a whole argument.)But even some of our more senior Union officials where upset and in disbelief that 15 guys over 69 didn't take the early out again they would have gotten 3 years worth of salary and medical plus they would be saving jobs as these guys don't need the money.

If you bring this subject up on the road or in a FBO the majority of pilots here support age 65 here . However, If you get on our Message boards it paints a different story but this is because most of these old farts have nothing better to do with there lives and spend there days off typing about stupid stuff like Obamas secret Birth certificate or asking younger pilots for help on how to operate there new I phones. If you can't figure out how to use a cell phone guys do you really think they should be trusted flying a jet into Class B airports??

I think our only chance is to pressure the Feds to enforce 135 operators or we petition to operate ourselves under 121 rules which I believe our BBJ's do already but can't confirm it. Maybe we can all get Obama to appoint Czar that will oversee that pilots shouldn't be allowed to fly past 65 in and jet operation be it 121 or 135.