Age 60 - Suicide of UAL Captain

[talespin]

If this man was rational at the time, then I would agree, however, do you REALLY think he was thinking rationallly? Sadly, he was a SICK man. He had a DISEASE. He needed TREATMENT, not JUDGEMENT. The FAA isn't in to that.

Somehow, I don't think his suicide supports the age 65 case... I see this as one man who let life and it's challenges kill him.

That's my point! Let's not make this about flying or age 60, because his taking his life has little or nothing to do with it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Worth watching on UAL's management and the plan to strip the retirement benefits.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

But suicide, especially when a man has his health and is relied on by his family for his care, comfort and advice, is a really egocentric, selfish act. He could have gotten a job at a fractional, someone mentioned he had a job, so what gives? Sorry for everyone one involved.

 

[eaglefly]

Reading this pisses me off! I lost my dad to cancer almost a year ago and man what I wouldn't do to have him back! I can't imagine how self centered someone must be to forsake there family and the gift of life. I feel for this mans family and the grief he has selfishly caused them, but don't make this about age 60 or flying for that matter. There are plenty of overseas carriers who are sucking up the retired guys, so if flying was so important he could have flown. It sounds like he should have been treated for depression a long time ago.

The concept of loss is very painful. You've suffered a loss and are transferring that to someone else's situation which is self-centered and as such you are identifying with anger. Clearly, you've not been touched by the disease of depression and know not of what you speak, which is understandable. For many people (hundreds of thousands in our society), depression is as debilitating as any other disease and many of those are "dead" already. They just do an acceptable job of putting one foot in front of the other (usually FOR the benefit of others) making it look like they "live" when in fact, they just "exist".

One day they cannot go further and that is why suicide is so prevelent in this world. Perhaps more forgivness is in order, not just for the loved one's survivors, but for the indescribable pain of the victim. A pain so great, it can no longer be dealt with.

Many people with a physical disease seek to end their pain early. Sometimes those with a disease not so easily recognized or understood make the same choice.

We all know the FAA is an extremely disfunctional entitity that in many areas either exists in denial or prefers to use a philosophy from the dark ages. As such, many hundreds of pilots suffering clinical depression will continue on, self-medicating with drugs or alcohol, which is fine with the FAA.

They obviously prefer that, then have to deal appropriately with what can be a treatable disease.

 

[TAWS]

That's terrible about the Captain.

The story on Frontline re: stripping pensions, is disgusting! If the whole gameplan is laid out in the "first day orders", how did the unions ever buy into any of this crap?

 

[mushroom]

The sad fact about many pilots, when they retire (age out) is that they don't live much longer. I know I once saw some statistic about this but I don't remember where I saw it.

I think that the guys who live their lives to fly, to be a CAPTAIN, who came out of the womb with stripes on their shoulders, are the ones who don't live much longer after they retire. Their entire life, the thing that defines them, their entire reason for living is now taken away. Those who have a life outside of flying, who just see it as just a job and a way to make money so they can spend more time with their families, who have other interests and other passions in life... I think those are the guys who live a long time after they are done flying.

I totally agree with T-Bags. Flying isn't WHO YOU ARE, it is only WHAT YOU DO.

Condolences to the guy's family and friends.

--m

 

[Green]

Worth watching on UAL's management and the plan to strip the retirement benefits.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

But suicide, especially when a man has his health and is relied on by his family for his care, comfort and advice, is a really egocentric, selfish act. He could have gotten a job at a fractional, someone mentioned he had a job, so what gives? Sorry for everyone one involved.

I don't think many people here understand how serious depression can be. Clinical depression doesn't mean you wake up bummed out a lot or you're pissed off that you have to retire at 60. Clinical depression is serious sh#t that if not treated often leads to suicide or at best terribly dificult lives. It's easy to say the guy was selfish or egocentric or whatever but I sure hope you don't have to ever witness a close friend or family member deal with this because it's a serious disease. Always easier to cast stones than to catch them.

Side note I heard that 7 current or former UAL pilots have committed suicide this year!!!!! I heard this from a UAL pilot and apparently the Ual webboard moderators have been deleting most posts that discuss the topic. It really is a shame that the FAA forces pilots to live with depression by making treatment a grounding offense.

 

[JA'd]

I agree clinical depression is no joke. I once asked a friend of mine (who battles with depression) what he thought about this other mutual friend who had just committed suicide. He said in a lot of ways he is happy for him because he is finally done fighting the battle. He said that when you are deep in depression, God, Family etc.. doesn't exist you just want out.

 

[AlbieF15]

If a guy is depressed and suicidal, why is giving him meds and letting him risk hundreds of other lives the right thing to do?

I think the FAA has EVERY reason to ground you if you are seeking psychiatric help. Its not about punishing the pilot, its about protecting everyone else.

Do you want a guy flying an ILS to mins who's considering suicide? Do you want to be around when that kind of guy gets a bad call from home/scheduling/an ex-spouse?

I'm very sorry this guy offed himself. I don't think him doing that makes a case for either A) softening medical requirements or B) changing age 60. (I mean, c'mon...if he's gonna kill himself who gives a $hit if its at 60 or 65? Its stupid!)

There are resouces without medical help for stress. HIMS programs, counselors, clergy, etc. However, if you a prozac popper or livin' on paxil, I don't think you belong in the position where you are responsible for so many lives without redundant backup. You say "we have a crew...", but the captain is still the boss and who's to say your F/O isn't equally depressed.

There is a reason for medical standards. Stay healthy. Stay sane. But don't ask me for a lot of pity if you go off and shoot yourself.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If a guy is depressed and suicidal, why is giving him meds and letting him risk hundreds of other lives the right thing to do?

I think the FAA has EVERY reason to ground you if you are seeking psychiatric help. Its not about punishing the pilot, its about protecting everyone else.

Do you want a guy flying an ILS to mins who's considering suicide? Do you want to be around when that kind of guy gets a bad call from home/scheduling/an ex-spouse?

I'm very sorry this guy offed himself. I don't think him doing that makes a case for either A) softening medical requirements or B) changing age 60. (I mean, c'mon...if he's gonna kill himself who gives a $hit if its at 60 or 65? Its stupid!)

There are resouces without medical help for stress. HIMS programs, counselors, clergy, etc. However, if you a prozac popper or livin' on paxil, I don't think you belong in the position where you are responsible for so many lives without redundant backup. You say "we have a crew...", but the captain is still the boss and who's to say your F/O isn't equally depressed.

There is a reason for medical standards. Stay healthy. Stay sane. But don't ask me for a lot of pity if you go off and shoot yourself.

Because of the threat of losing a medical, many people don't seek treatment for a host of problems. The FAA medical standards are crazy. Seeking treatment and trying to find problems is discouraged. Instead we all find the easiest doctor we can and try to cover up any potential problems.... There has to be a better way...

There are plenty of depressed pilots out there Albie, they just aren't being treated because that would void their medical....

 

[learflyer]

Reading this pisses me off! I lost my dad to cancer almost a year ago and man what I wouldn't do to have him back! I can't imagine how self centered someone must be to forsake there family and the gift of life. I feel for this mans family and the grief he has selfishly caused them, but don't make this about age 60 or flying for that matter. There are plenty of overseas carriers who are sucking up the retired guys, so if flying was so important he could have flown. It sounds like he should have been treated for depression a long time ago.

Clinical depression is a nasty thing. It is a disease like cancer is. Not saying it's as deadly, but it is a disease nontheless.