Age 60 rule under attack!

[Andy]

The House passed HR 5576, an appropriations bill for the DOT, HUD, and District of Columbia. It did not contain any provisions to change the age 60 rule in it.
HR 5576 then went to the Senate appropriations committee for amendments prior to being voted on. While there, the entire text of S. 65 was added in Section 114 under Administrative Provisions -- Offfice of the Secrety of Transportation (link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:4:./temp/~c109sismU9:e379863: ) . This amendment is a back door way of getting legislation passed.
There is a way to have it removed, but it will require a Senator to object (a point of order can be made) to it once it is reported to the Senate. The bill has been reported to the Senate and is on the calendar under General Order Number 535. If the point of order is sustained (it should be, since this is a legislative rider on an appropriations bill), the bill will go back to the Committee on Appropriations. This is based on the Rules of the Senate, Rule XVI, paragraph 2. Link: http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule16.php

In order to stop the change from slipping in through the back door, it will require an effort on your part to write, fax, or e-mail (in order of preference) your Senators to express your opinion. Since there is more resistance to the change among the Democratic party, I'd recommend writing Democratic Senators outside of you home state if you have the time.
Here is a link to all Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
If you click on Web Form, it will usually take you to an e-mail form to send. If you click on the Senator's name, you will find mailing addresses and fax numbers.

On the Democrat side, I'd recommend concentrating firepower on Sens Inouye, Lautenberg, Rockefeller, Cantwell, Dorgan, and Pryor. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp109&sid=cp109S6pOz&refer=&r_n=sr225.109&item=&sel=TOC_17092&

If anyone recommends any other Senator to target, please post.

If you're looking for support from ALPA, I found this on the ALPA webboard (posted by an America West pilot):

“DW showed up in Phoenix yesterday. He was in town to talk "DELTA" with Doug Parker (Oops, I'd better not start THAT rumor...think December 4). And as luck would have it, our MEC just happened to be having a "special" meeting yesterday, followed by a "regular" meeting today. Duane showed up and gave his campaign stump speech, explaining why the Reps should vote him a third term.
But Duane, aren't you going to turn 60 during your term? ... paraphrasing one of the questions.
Never one to be without an answer, Duane replied (again paraphrasing): Well, Age 60 is going to change by the end of the year. It is [Alaska Senator Ted] Stevens' rider that will be attached to the next FAA appropriations bill and will be buried in 24,000 pages of spending.
But will it pass? Will it be Age 62, intially? Will ALPA oppose it? What about the polls? What about the "children?"
DW: It will pass and it will be age 65. ALPA doesn't always pay attention to the polls (although ALPA certainly "pays" for them).


It looks like they're trying to stuff this through the back door of Congress and 'ol Duane Woerth is looking to stay in office for an additional five years. If you are opposed to the change, get out there and write to the Senate.

 

[SWA/FO]

Its all about DW...nobody else.

 

[pilotyip]

Likewise all those who feel lifting the age 60 rule is the right way to go, should let your representive know also.

 

[Andy]

Likewise all those who feel lifting the age 60 rule is the right way to go, should let your representive know also.

Pilotyip, this is an attempt to circumvent the democratic process. Instead of taking this to a vote on the floor, Sen Stevens has buried it inside of an appropriations bill. If only one Senator makes a point of order, I believe that it has to be removed. Use the front door, not the back door for this type of legislation.

 

[PCL_128]

It looks like they're trying to stuff this through the back door of Congress and 'ol Duane Woerth is looking to stay in office for an additional five years. If you are opposed to the change, get out there and write to the Senate.

I'm with you on stopping this Age 65 backdoor crap, but DW wanting to stay an additional five years isn't an issue here. Capt. Woerth's retirement from ALPA office has nothing to do with the mandatory pilot retirement age. He can continue to run for ALPA President long past turning age 60. The President of ALPA isn't even required to be a pilot.

Also, the information you saw posted on the ALPA boards has not been confirmed. It's just hearsay. Capt. Woerth's official position has always been in favor of sticking with Age 60.

 

[Andy]

I'm with you on stopping this Age 65 backdoor crap, but DW wanting to stay an additional five years isn't an issue here. Capt. Woerth's retirement from ALPA office has nothing to do with the mandatory pilot retirement age. He can continue to run for ALPA President long past turning age 60. The President of ALPA isn't even required to be a pilot.

Also, the information you saw posted on the ALPA boards has not been confirmed. It's just hearsay. Capt. Woerth's official position has always been in favor of sticking with Age 60.

Thank you for the corrections; it appeared to be a legit post. I was also unaware that the ALPA President could be over 60.
I am unable to edit the original post or I would delete the final portion of it.

 

[tomgoodman]

Working more years, retired less years

The PBGC has a huge deficit, and Congress worries about having to bail them out. But if pilots work for several additional years, that's more money going into pension funds and less coming out. If the retirement age is raised, this will be one of the reasons, as with Social Security.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Too bad ALPA doesn't really know how its members feel about Age 60. When the survey, made available to all active pilots was on going,.. only 1/3 particapted... which means 2/3 of ALPA pilots do not care about age 60.

So don't say one word about the Prsidents position on Age 60.....

Membership message to ALPA National... It's Carte Blanche baby... do whatever you want.....

 

[PCL_128]

Too bad ALPA doesn't really know how its members feel about Age 60. When the survey, made available to all active pilots was on going,.. only 1/3 particapted... which means 2/3 of ALPA pilots do not care about age 60.

Membership message to ALPA National... It's Carte Blanche baby... do whatever you want.....

Lack of participation can usually be interpreted as support for the status quo. The people most motivated to vote in that poll were the radical few that want to see the rule changed. Even with all of them turning out to vote, they still didn't manage to get a majority. I view that as wide-spread support within ALPA to keep the rule as is.

 

[Stan]

I emailed and wrote to my Senators is California today. This is the text of the letter if anyone is interested.

Dear Senator ####, I am writing today concerning Airline Pilot Age 65 Retirement Legislation.

I was informed that the entire text of S. 65 was added to HR. 5576. This deals with changing the mandatory retirement age of airline pilots from 60 to 65. As an airline pilot I feel this is a detriment to safety. I also believe if Congress wants to take up this matter there should at least be an open debate and vote.

If there is anything you can do to have this amendment removed form General order 535 it would be greatly appreciated.



Sincerely,

 

[pipe]

Done. Contacted dozens of them.

Stop the madness.

PIPE

 

[MD80DRVR]

I just wrote all of my senators in support of the repeal.

 

[ironspud]

Pilotyip, this is an attempt to circumvent the democratic process. Instead of taking this to a vote on the floor, Sen Stevens has buried it inside of an appropriations bill. If only one Senator makes a point of order, I believe that it has to be removed. Use the front door, not the back door for this type of legislation.

Nah. What comes in thru the backdoor should leave the same way. I do it all the time.

 

[BigKahuna]

Too bad ALPA doesn't really know how its members feel about Age 60. When the survey, made available to all active pilots was on going,.. only 1/3 particapted... which means 2/3 of ALPA pilots do not care about age 60.

So don't say one word about the Prsidents position on Age 60.....

Membership message to ALPA National... It's Carte Blanche baby... do whatever you want.....

actually he has stated this before in the past in one of his editorial in the ALPA mag. I'd have to digging through my stack of old ALPA mags but it was about a year or so ago.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I just wrote all of my senators in support of the repeal.

FLY TILL YA DIE! uke:


BBB

 

[sandman2122]

Along with all of your passengers in back too, eh?

Vote NO

 

[kwick]

Dudes, Get a life. If you want to fly past 60 , go for it. If you think it's a bad idea don't. It's that simple. Otherwise STFU!

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Dudes, Get a life. If you want to fly past 60 quote]

Ya, somewhere else. Another boner trying to screw everyone around his greedy self. GO 135 and fly until you die!

 

[MD80DRVR]

Ya, somewhere else. Another boner trying to screw everyone around his greedy self. GO 135 and fly until you die!

Maybe the guy above you on the seniority list thinks you're screwing him by wanting him to retire at age 60 so you can move up another number. It goes both ways...... It's going to get repealed sooner or later, so it might as well happen while we can all take advantage of it.

 

[Nindiri]

I have no intention of flying past 60. Hell, I'll be lucky to make it to 60. But I don't see what right one pilot has to tell another pilot he has to retire.

I say repeal the age 60 rule and leave people alone to make their own decisions. we don't need Big Brother.

 

[Phaedrus]

But I don't see what right one pilot has to tell another pilot he has to retire.

With a grasp of the situation such as this, I strongly recommend you eat potato chips and watch TV.

 

[Nindiri]

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Dumb******************** idiots always trying to tell other people what to do.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Lack of participation can usually be interpreted as support for the status quo. The people most motivated to vote in that poll were the radical few that want to see the rule changed. Even with all of them turning out to vote, they still didn't manage to get a majority. I view that as wide-spread support within ALPA to keep the rule as is.

Not necessarily...

People don't turn out to vote for issues they don't think will have an immediate impact upon them. I used to think that $200,000/yr was all the money in the world. It didn't bother me to tax the bejeepers out of the "rich guys" because I never dreamt I'd become one. Now that I'm making more than that, my tune has changed...a LOT.

Likewise, to a guy in his 30's or 40's, turning 60 must seem like a million years away. To know how quickly 15 or 20 years can pass, it might help them to look at how fast a similar number of years have passed in their own lives. (Their Dads could probably tell them) Where people stand on this issue "all depends on whose ox is being gored," as my mom used to say...

With only a few percent of active airline pilots currently between the ages of 55 and 60, to get a third of the membership to vote shows a huge turnout. If we could just the same third to vote for immediate, compulsory retirement for all pilots who currently reside in states that begin with the letters "T" or "F," anybody left on the payroll could work to age 65, and there would STILL be enough upgrades to please the junior crewmembers.

Hey, it makes as much sense as anything else I've heard on here...

 

[Jim Smyth]

Pilotyip, this is an attempt to circumvent the democratic process. Instead of taking this to a vote on the floor, Sen Stevens has buried it inside of an appropriations bill. If only one Senator makes a point of order, I believe that it has to be removed. Use the front door, not the back door for this type of legislation.

They used the back door method back in 1959. Seems fitting!

 

[Huck]

Let's boil it down:

there will be those who are captains for 5 more years,

there will be those who are first officers for 5 more years.

 

[G4G5]

and those who will be furloughed for 5 more years..................

Plan for it folks it's going to happen someday.

 

[General Lee]

I have no intention of flying past 60. Hell, I'll be lucky to make it to 60. But I don't see what right one pilot has to tell another pilot he has to retire.

I say repeal the age 60 rule and leave people alone to make their own decisions. we don't need Big Brother.

Most people around age 60 have a major lack of situational awareness, and that is dangerous. Just look what happened in LEX with two young guys.(no disrespect intended) Policemen and Firemen have to retire at a specific age, and so should pilots. If you want a 62 year old fireman carrying you down a burning staircase, then go for it. Nobody else does, and that goes the same for old pilots. Sad but true for the majority.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

and those who will be furloughed for 5 more years..................

Plan for it folks it's going to happen someday.

Mars will attack too.....!!!!!!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Phaedrus]

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Dumb******************** idiots always trying to tell other people what to do

.

Again, your grasp is tenuous at best. I merely recommended something and you construed it as being told what to do. You'd be a hypnotist's dream.

 

[Flopgut]

and those who will be furloughed for 5 more years.......

And those who will work five more years....And promptly insist on ANOTHER 5 years....Or NO limit!

Can't simply continue to feed the greed imperative, it won't stop. Too many people won't get themselves prepared.

It's only about seniority. If it weren't there to be stolen from those junior to them, we would have no problem. You all know you can keep working, your just too lazy to find something else.