AGE 60 passes Senate today..

[lineflyer1]

Age 60 Update Senate passes HR 3074
The Senate passed HR 3074(Transportation and HUD appropriations) including the age 60 change amendment by a vote of 88-7.
Included in HR 3074 is Senate Amendment 2845 which is the Oberstar language to include ALPA's recommendations .
This bill passed the House previously.

I think it will go to the President for signing in the near future.
The 88-7 vote precludes a Presidential veto if I remember correctly.

Just informational in nature... don't shoot the messenger!

 

[BigMotorToter]

So is that it? It's all over? Done deal? Fat lady has sung? Is it all over but the crying?

Does a countdown clock start when the Pres. signs it?

 

[lineflyer1]

So is that it? It's all over? Done deal? Fat lady has sung? Is it all over but the crying?

Does a countdown clock start when the Pres. signs it?

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 1st Session
as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R.3074 as Amended ) Vote Number: 336Vote Date: September 12, 2007, 10:58 AMRequired For Majority: 1/2Vote Result: Bill PassedMeasure Number: H.R. 3074 (Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008 )Measure Title: A bill making appropriations for the Departments of Transportation, and Housing and Urban Development, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2008, and for other purposes.Vote Counts:YEAs88NAYs7Not Voting5Vote

I believe that it becomes law 30 days after the Prez signs it. There are enough votes to over ride a veto.

 

[race#53]

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To permit pilots to serve in multicrew covered operations until attaining 65 years of age.

This is the same as them saying they will permit driving until 90 but you still have to get a license.
It's not a law until the FAA says so...and we know how fast they work!

 

[Tanker Clown]

I don't know why you guys are complaining. According to Kit Darby, there is quite a pilot shortage.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

As long as it don't pass before November, I'm hopin' to get rid of someone over here....

 

[PCL_128]

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To permit pilots to serve in multicrew covered operations until attaining 65 years of age.

This is the same as them saying they will permit driving until 90 but you still have to get a license.
It's not a law until the FAA says so...and we know how fast they work!

The bill requires the FAA to implement the new age limit within 30 days of signing.

 

[XJohXJ]

Was this also the FAA funding bill, or is that one still churning?

 

[Beetle007]

The bill is H.R.3074

The age 65 amendment is S11429 (note: when you click this link, you must scroll down to the S11429 amendment)

 

[PCL_128]

Just finished reading the bill, as amended for the Age 65 provision. Items of note:

1. No one can return with seniority if they have already reached the age of 60 before the day the bill goes into affect. Already past 60? Tough luck, geezer.

2. No new medical standards, except that age 60+ pilots must maintain a 1st class medical with an examination every 6 months. No letting it lapse to 2nd class privileges if you're a copilot.

3. International ops require the other pilot to be under age 60. That should make for some interesting abrogations of seniority.

4. The new age limit is prohibited from being used as a basis for litigation. This protects all parties, including labor unions, from lawsuits related to the age limit.

5. Requires airlines to engage in negotiations with labor unions if the CBAs require changes to benefits or work rules as a result of the new age limit.

6. The GAO will make a report in 2 years on how the change has affected operations.



Thanks geezers. You've slowed seniority progression and kept furloughees at AMR on the street for even longer. Not to mention the loss in career earnings that most pilots will suffer because of this. Selfish bastards....

 

[doylehargraves]

Thanks geezers. You've slowed seniority progression and kept furloughees at AMR on the street for even longer. Not to mention the loss in career earnings that most pilots will suffer because of this. Selfish bastards....

This has to be the funniest thing I've ever read on here. I LOVE IT!! Who in the hell would want to work for AMR anyway? 15 year upgrade and barely making $100k??? not my cup of tea..........

However, this just allowed YOU to work an extra 5 years at the top of the payscale too! But, I do agree with the "selfish bastards" comment!

 

[PCL_128]

However, this just allowed YOU to work an extra 5 years at the top of the payscale too!

Do the math, my friend. There is no five years "extra" for those of us that aren't already in the left seat. We get the same number of years in the left seat, but we have to wait five years longer to get there. The only ones getting any "extra" years in the left seat are those that are already sitting in it.

Example: 35 year old copilot expecting to upgrade this year, now has to wait five more years:

With age 60 unchanged - pilot upgrades this year and retires at 60, having spent 25 years in the left seat.

With new age 65 limit - pilot has to wait five more years while the geezers continue to sit in the seat. He now upgrades at age 40 instead. Guess what? Still 25 years in the left seat!!! He gets the same amount of time in the seat, but has to wait five addition years to get there. If he still wants to retire at age-60, which is what he originally planned, then he'll lose 5 years in the seat and all of the compounding interest he would have had from his 401k and B-fund contributions for those 5 years. In other words, the only ones to win are the selfish geezers that are already in their left seats.

 

[ironspud]

....Selfish bastards....

right back at ya, PFT sca...uh, scum

 

[Beetle007]

2. No new medical standards, except that age 60+ pilots must maintain a 1st class medical with an examination every 6 months. No letting it lapse to 2nd class privileges if you're a copilot.

I read it a little differently. The FAA can create new medical standards. But, the amendment says they have to apply the SAME medical standards to all pilots regardles of age. So, if/when the FAA increases the medical standards, they have to apply it uniformly to all pilots regardless of age. A 35 year old pilot will be under the same scrutiny as a 64 year old.



"``(1) MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS AND STANDARDS.--Except as provided by paragraph (2), a person serving as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations shall not be subject to different medical standards, or different, greater, or more frequent medical examinations, on account of age unless the Secretary determines (based on data received or studies published after the date of enactment of the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008) that different medical standards, or different, greater, or more frequent medical examinations, are needed to ensure an adequate level of safety in flight.

``(2) DURATION OF FIRST-CLASS MEDICAL CERTIFICATE.--No person who has attained 60 years of age may serve as a pilot of an air carrier engaged in covered operations unless the person has a first-class medical certificate. Such a certificate shall expire on the last day of the 6-month period following the date of examination shown on the certificate."

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If you don't upgrade earlier (which you will, due to increased retirements between age 60-65-medical, etc.), you will gain 5 years of FO pay, which is worth a lot, relative to worlwide incomes, and may be worth a lot, period, such as if you're at a major and you're making $50-$100+ per year as an FO.

C U!

cliff
GRB

PS-I think it's wrong they made an age limit. They should've done away with a limit alltogether.

 

[jke406]

B fund consequences?

question for someone with more knowledge than I:

I was under the impression that the "B" fund existed as a means of compensating pilots for not being able to work all the way to retirement age (65), i.e., the B fund payments over a career would make up for five years' less income with mandatory retirement at age 60.

is that the case, and if so, now what?

 

[PCL_128]

If you don't upgrade earlier (which you will, due to increased retirements between age 60-65-medical, etc.), you will gain 5 years of FO pay, which is worth a lot, relative to worlwide incomes, and may be worth a lot, period, such as if you're at a major and you're making $50-$100+ per year as an FO.

That's not a gain, that's a loss. Run the numbers and figure out how much you'll have lost in career earnings due to the loss of compound interest if you choose to retire at the reasonable age of 60. For most pilots, the number is between $250-$500k.

And if you think that $50-$100k per year is a lot of money, then you've been drinking from the pilotyip kool aid pitcher for far too long.

 

[DiamondZ]

you will gain 5 years of FO pay, which is worth a lot, relative to worlwide incomes

Yippee!!! I make more than a McDeez burger flipper.

 

[m80drvr]

Hi!

If you don't upgrade earlier (which you will, due to increased retirements between age 60-65-medical, etc.), you will gain 5 years of FO pay, which is worth a lot, relative to worlwide incomes, and may be worth a lot, period, such as if you're at a major and you're making $50-$100+ per year as an FO.

C U!

cliff
GRB

PS-I think it's wrong they made an age limit. They should've done away with a limit alltogether.

You, my friend, are an IDIOT!

 

[PCL_128]

question for someone with more knowledge than I:

I was under the impression that the "B" fund existed as a means of compensating pilots for not being able to work all the way to retirement age (65), i.e., the B fund payments over a career would make up for five years' less income with mandatory retirement at age 60.

is that the case, and if so, now what?

A B-Fund is just a type of pension plan. An A-Fund is the tradition pension that people think of, in that it's a defined benefit plan that provides a fixed amount of income per year after retirement. A B-Fun is a defined contribution plan. In other words, the company merely provides a set amount of money towards your own account that will accrue interest until you retire and start withdrawing. I you have to wait an additional five years until breaking the six-figure mark and still retire at the same age, then you've lost lots of compound interest in your B-Fund over that time.