Age 60 informal poll

[Sluggo_63]

...he understands the pilot group is divided right down the middle, on the age 60 issue in particular...

This is disingenuous and you know it. It's the same propaganda spewed by the APAAD crowd. It is not down the middle. Maybe, just maybe (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here) it's split down the 75/25 line, and probably much less if you let the furloughees have a voice in this. At least be honest, right now there is a large minority of pilots that want this rule changes. Vocal? Yes. Organized? Yes... but still a minority.

 

[g-code]

Management changed the rules? So, when Mars attacks, you will blame the martians? If they attack, should we raise the age to 66? Why can't you compare ASA to other airlines? Everyone makes a choice, but no one is safe from a broken promise, and that is what a pension is. Look at other industries like the auto industry to follow that line of promises. Does the Gov't have to guarantee 401Ks too?

Do I want to fly a 777 at DL. You bet. Do I want to do it flying into BOM late at night with someone who has lost his situational awareness and hearing (both not checked really in medicals---you and I know that to be true), NO WAY. If you want to change some more rules, how about marrying your sister. People do that in the hills of Kentuky, so maybe we should all do that.

And, I am an arse you say? Can't handle a debate? Why does ICAO want to limit (a guideline put out by them) the number of over age 60 pilots in each cockpit? Please answer that. Safety?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I understand your argument but I strongly disagree. Take UA for example. The pilots there will recieve less than a FOURTH of what they would have from UA. Because they retire at 60, and not 65, they do not recieve the full PBGC benefits.

It is not about everytime something happens, raise the age. The pension, in my mind is a huge issue, but there is also that of safety. I think that PLENTY of guys could fly past 60, and perhaps they should have a more stringent exam.

Finally, General I pray to God that you are not comparing pilots to autoworkers. Totally different jobs with totally different levels of sacrifice, and both you and I know about THAT.

 

[slaquer5]

You are stupid. That was thrown in there to make a point. That point being that the pensions are just promises. Should we also expect our 401Ks to be guaranteed just like we thought our pensions would be? No. Got it yet?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I am thinking you are a child and not a pilot. So do you have today off? 401 K is protected. I am thinking you need to go to summer school you moron.

 

[Andy]

There you go only thinking about yourself, a junior pilot (puke) and how tuff it is for you and your friends. Personally I'm sick of it. What about the guys who have turned 60 in the last five years. Where is your concern for them? If the law changes are you interested in that group? I know your answer and it's: NO. That's because from your post all you really care about is yourself and stealing some senior pilot’s livelihood.

Ah, us junior pilot pukes. Those of us who are starting to get recalled are hoping that we can participate in an ALPA poll on this subject. Any guesses how the returning furloughees will vote?

I find it interesting that, now that it's unlikely that the rule will change prior to you turning 60, you are suddenly concerned about those that have retired in the last 5 years. Not too long ago, you didn't give a hoot about them. Like it or not, IF this changes at some arbitrary day in the future, there will be no lookback.
At this point, the only way that the age will change is if the Senate can get an omnibus appropriations bill passed with the amendment buried in HR 5576. I now see it as unlikely that the Dems will allow an omnibus appropriations bill to pass in the 109th; they'll CR (continuing resolution) those appropriations bills into the 110th. In the 110th, this doesn't stand a chance of passing as currently drafted.

For those that want to change the retirement age, you need to change your strategy. You'd have less resistance if you wanted to stay on after 60 as an FO. If you truly love flying and need to get a few more years until medicare kicks in, that will solve your problems. Or is it just about your egos and getting top dollar?

 

[Patriot328]

I am thinking you are a child and not a pilot. So do you have today off? 401 K is protected. I am thinking you need to go to summer school you moron.

Last I checked, a 401k, like anything in life, isn't guarunteed....

 

[slaquer5]

Last I checked, a 401k, like anything in life, isn't guarunteed....

Do tell me how many people you know that have lost there 401K ? I know lots that have lost there pension.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Now that it's unlikely that the rule will change prior to you turning 60, you are suddenly concerned about those that have retired in the last 5 years.

Andy: Please, where did you get that information about the rule being unlikely to change. Haven't you been reading the papers as to what is happening?

The likelihood for change is now greater that ever before and it’s getting better each day.

Haven’t you seen the letters to the Administrator from the 10 most powerful Senators regarding this issue? Or the one from Rep. Gibbons either? Haven’t you seen the letter to the Administrator by James Hoffa, Pres. of the Teamsters? Haven’t you seen the new ALPA president's views on age 60 and uniting the membership? Capt. Prater wants the rule to change Andy, this all says that change is in the wind, not the status quo.

Andy, I will agree that the deal could be derailed, so it’s not done yet, but there is enough to be more optimistic for change with each day, certainly, more so than 90, 60 or 30 days ago.

I have one question: Do you think that ALPA or the FAA or the legislators on Capital Hill want to go through all this again next year? No Way!

Wouldn’t it really be much easier for all concerned to just stop the discrimination against Americans now instead of hearing about this every day of every year from now until you turn 59?

If age 60 passes this year then that will be the end to the constant agitation on this issue.

So ask yourself, if you were a Representative or a Senator or even the FAA Administrator or especially the new incoming Sec. of Transportation, would you want the agitation to continue or stop? That is what will be a big factor in the final decisions and outcome.

 

[Andy]

Undaunted Flyer, I'm just a junior pilot puke. The concept that the rule is unlikely to change is merely my personal opinion based on the forecast political balance after Nov 7. I read the tea leaves much differently than you. But again, I'm just a junior pilot puke; I obviously don't know nearly as much about this technical stuff as senior pilots.

 

[jbDC9]

Wouldn’t it really be much easier for all concerned to just stop the discrimination against Americans now instead of hearing about this every day of every year from now until you turn 59?

Oh for cryin' out loud, would you and Klako shut your yaps about this being discrimination already?? If it's upped to 65, are you gonna whine about discrimination in another 5 years? If you put a number on it, any age is discriminatory. So, now that we're against age discrimination, how about we rally the FAA against the age minimums of 17 for the PVT ticket, 18 for the Commercial, 23 for the ATP, or perhaps the max age of 30 for hiring as an air traffic controller... or how about we eliminate the drinking age altogther, would that make you happy and feel less discriminated against?? But, I don't hear you whining about these irrelevant things because it doesn't affect your wallet.

Idiots.

Admit it, it's all about your ego and the money... mainly the money. I can understand the argument of losing your pension and needing more time to make it up. Yep, it's the dollar signs. But when you morons start spouting off about discrimination and junior pukes stealing the livelihoods of senior guys, well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t.

C'mon, say it, it's all about the cash...

 

[Patriot328]

Do tell me how many people you know that have lost there 401K ? I know lots that have lost there pension.

Any investmet can get screwed up for various reasons...

http://www.retirement-4-u.com/401k.htm

401K Planning Information
Enron’s legacy: How safe is your 401K?
AARP Bulletin (www.aarp.org/bulletin)
The sudden collapse of Enron Corp. in which many workers and retirees lost their retirement savings, is leading employee advocates to ask:
How safe are American workers’ 401k assets considered by many to be the cornerstone of a successful retirement plan, when a company goes belly up?
“There are no guarantees,” acknowledges David Wray, president of the Profit Sharing/401k Council of America, based in Chicago. ‘The 401K is about investing and getting the returns. It’s a wealth accumulation program,” he says, “and you can’t have wealth accumulation and protection at the same time.”
Employees at Enron learned that the hard way. Hundreds of them not only lost their jobs but their 401k retirement funds, largely made up of company stock now worth under a dollar a share as well. .......