Age 60 informal poll

[UndauntedFlyer]

Please listen carefully! B plans came into being because pilots retired at 60. When that changes, GT/UAL will want to end B plan contributions for pilots! Bet on it! It DOES NOT MATTER what the cost is at any retirement age...UAL will seek to end it, for everyone! You will suceed in changing the age, and simultaneously end retirement plans, of any sort, for pilots. That exact thing, or some very similiar version thereof, is exactly what will happen. Are you just acting like you don't understand this because you don't care?

Listen up, if you're on that committee what you need to be talking about is how UAL can have 4 bil in cash, and you no pension, within the same 2 year period. Elections are underway, things could start to move labor's way. Abandon your old, failed coping mechanism of ripping off your co-workers and union brothers and push some tough issues. If you had a pension you wouldn't have to work, and the rest of us could have the same opportunities that were afforded you. Get busy acting like the 37 year, battlestar wearing ALPA member that you are and improve this profession for all of us.

First off, the B plan was put into place just in case there was some kind of stress termination of the traditional A (defined benefit) plan. That is the one and only reason for the B plan and thank God ALPA did something right with their guidance in seeking this plan as a back-up plan.

If UAL seeks to terminate their contributions to the current DC 401k type plan that will happen whether or not there is an age 60 or age 65 rule. With a DC plan the pilot retirement age makes no difference at all to UAL in terms of their contribution to the plan. It's all the same to UAL.

As far as the future continuation or the new creation of the A (defined benefit) plan, that will never happen in anyone's lifetime. Such plans are gone for good.

As far as that "Battlestar," I earned that by putting it all on the line for the junior pilots by defeating the B-Scale. There has never been a B scale in place at UAL as a result of the line pilots walking the picket line for 30-days.

Now the age 60 rule must go because the future is a DC retirement plan. Getting rid of age 60 is in the long term good for all pilots, junion and senior. To disagree with this is so short sighted and is to say that that pilot will never be senior?

 

[Booster]

Falconjet

Well I've got more than enough sick time to stay on the ground for several weeks. How long do you think it would take the airlines to go under if the majority of their workforce simply couldn't get out of their sick bed to go to work for a week or two?
So why would I be getting in that jet again?
Still waiting for anybody to explain the logic of that to me.
How about thinking that through and getting back to me. FJ

That is pretty easy: Because you will lose YOUR job if you don't.
Do you seriously think enough 'junior pilots' would walk?! I don't because they want the left seat someday.
I'm lookin out for you. Just think up a better way to get er done.

 

[Flopgut]

First off, the B plan was put into place just in case there was some kind of stress termination of the traditional A (defined benefit) plan. That is the one and only reason for the B plan and thank God ALPA did something right with their guidance in seeking this plan as a back-up plan.

If UAL seeks to terminate their contributions to the current DC 401k type plan that will happen whether or not there is an age 60 or age 65 rule. With a DC plan the pilot retirement age makes no difference at all to UAL in terms of their contribution to the plan. It's all the same to UAL.

As far as the future continuation or the new creation of the A (defined benefit) plan, that will never happen in anyone's lifetime. Such plans are gone for good.

As far as that "Battlestar," I earned that by putting it all on the line for the junior pilots by defeating the B-Scale. There has never been a B scale in place at UAL as a result of the line pilots walking the picket line for 30-days.

Now the age 60 rule must go because the future is a DC retirement plan. Getting rid of age 60 is in the long term good for all pilots, junion and senior. To disagree with this is so short sighted and is to say that that pilot will never be senior?

Please continue to think about how B plans came into being. One element in their creation was age 60 pilot retirement. I agree, B plans are all we have left going forward. However, that doesn't make them secure; In this airline mgt environment, that just makes them the next target. This is just one example of pitfalls we continue to face and why age 65 is a lateral step.

You fought B scale and have a battlestar to show for it. But now, you're pushing an age change with junior pilots still on the street. This large scale change amounts to 15-20% of a pilots working years and includes no provision to mitigate detriment to junior pilots. OUCH! Think back to the day you got that battlestar, what would you think of this at that time of your career? Basically, you're sort of creating a B scale with this change, actually worse.

I can acknowledge that even with a change, those who are junior will eventually have a chance to be senior. However, they aren't going to enjoy the 5 year windfall you will. They will have to work half those years just to make up what they lost, and that's the best case scenario. That's not how collective bargaining works! That's not what earned you the battlestar!

I empathize with your need to work. I'd like to see you get a good deal. But, I don't think it's too much to ask, that as you push this age change you also consider how to help ALL of us. When you say "A plans are gone for good" or "B plan contributions may end age 60 or 65" I seriously doubt you want to help all of us. If AA comes through all this with an A plan in tact, you better change your tune and get ready to secure something similiar (albeit more secure) for your UAL bretheren. I don't think you're interested in helping all your UAL brothers and that's why I don't think you should be on the list in 09.

If I could be sure you wanted to help everyone, I would help you.

 

[pipe]

First off, the B plan was put into place just in case there was some kind of stress termination of the traditional A (defined benefit) plan. That is the one and only reason for the B plan and thank God ALPA did something right with their guidance in seeking this plan as a back-up plan.

If UAL seeks to terminate their contributions to the current DC 401k type plan that will happen whether or not there is an age 60 or age 65 rule. With a DC plan the pilot retirement age makes no difference at all to UAL in terms of their contribution to the plan. It's all the same to UAL.

As far as the future continuation or the new creation of the A (defined benefit) plan, that will never happen in anyone's lifetime. Such plans are gone for good.

As far as that "Battlestar," I earned that by putting it all on the line for the junior pilots by defeating the B-Scale. There has never been a B scale in place at UAL as a result of the line pilots walking the picket line for 30-days.

Now the age 60 rule must go because the future is a DC retirement plan. Getting rid of age 60 is in the long term good for all pilots, junion and senior. To disagree with this is so short sighted and is to say that that pilot will never be senior?

United Shuttle = B Scale

TED/LCO = B Scale

PIPE

 

[Falconjet]

Why in the world would you think I would want you as a F/O? What makes you think you have near the qualifications to get to that left seat? In about ten years you may have it, but then I'll be long retired? Let me see, you flew Falcons in the CG, WOW,WOW. I've been told that in CG aviation the sharp guys go to Helos! Now you'r hanging out in the back seat of the 727, WOW!! Do I see a trend?

No Falcon, I would prefer not to have such an inexperienced pilot in the right seat, or the RFO seat.

Yes you do see a trend. The trend is that you still haven't been able to come up with a single rational explanation for the need to have one under 60 guy in the cockpit, yet continue to spew insults and call people names. Excellent way to convince people that you are right.

I have already conceded that you are the wise and experienced one and that I could never be worthy to pull the gear handle for you (not that I ever would since I know who you are), so now why don't you try to make one even slight argument to convince me why we need an under 60 guy to babysit the over 60 guy. Please. Address the issue for once instead of the smug, arrogant responses with the gay little smile faces in an effort to convince us that you are just kidding around. Come on, at least try.

And if I were to stage a sick out and lose my job, guess what, I will at least leave with my dignity and integrity intact. I will be able to sleep at night and I will find another way to support my family. You may not want me to be your FO, and that is fine. But if the law follows the ICAO standard, after you turn 60, you will NEED me as an FO.

FJ

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

United Shuttle = B Scale

TED/LCO = B Scale

PIPE

This is not a B scale. Most of the pilots in this fleet are there by choice and could bid up to the mid and wide body fleet at any time.

 

[Andy]

This is not a B scale. Most of the pilots in this fleet are there by choice and could bid up to the mid and wide body fleet at any time.

Now THAT's funny. :laugh:

With seat freezes for the LCO, those pilots in the LCO are locked in for 36 months. Quite a few of the LCO Captains ended up bidding to widebody FO to get away from the heinous work rules.
MOST of the LCO pilots are NOT there by choice.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

MOST of the LCO pilots are NOT there by choice.

1. By definition, there is no B scale at UAL.

2. Most (more than 50%) of the LCO pilots at UAL could bid off the LCO if they so choose.

3. Very few LCO pilots are currently affected by a freeze.

 

[Flybynite]

And if I were to stage a sick out and lose my job, guess what, I will at least leave with my dignity and integrity intact. I will be able to sleep at night and I will find another way to support my family. You may not want me to be your FO, and that is fine. But if the law follows the ICAO standard, after you turn 60, you will NEED me as an FO.

FJ

I love your logic here. How much time, energy and resources did you put into pursuing your present job? I am guessing by your avatar you are at FEDEX so you have a secure position with tremendous growth ahead of you but are willing to give it up because you disagree with a law change.

Do you think before speaking or are you just plain stupid? Make sure you tell your kids when they are older how you gave up a pretty good gig at FEDEX because someone over 60 was allowed to continue working. I'm sure they will be very proud of you and the stand you took.

 

[Andy]

1. By definition, there is no B scale at UAL.

2. Most (more than 50%) of the LCO pilots at UAL could bid off the LCO if they so choose.

3. Very few LCO pilots are currently affected by a freeze.

You're out of touch with reality.