Age 60 informal poll

[mdanno808]

Story of 2 pilots. Both friends of the family, and both United pilots. One retires this year, and one retires in 08 (I believe). First one will retire 75/76, and was a non-scheder (flew for zantop, flemming, ONA, etc.). Saved every dime he could, and is looking forward to retirement. Has planned accordingly, and while the loss of his db plan will change the lifestyle considerably, he will live in retirement, and will be able to live comfortably. 2nd one is in deep $hit. 2 ex wives, 2 houses (a third being built in Vegas), and was going to live off of his db and company stock (that great esops program). Survival during retirement is based on how you planned for your golden years. Now, I don't think that it is okay that the companies terminated the db plans, and captains are retiring only to make 2300/month (the last figure that the first guy told me). I also understand that different circumstances surround each pilot facing retirement. You can not tell me though, that 95% of the pilots facing retirement will not be able to do so at 60 and survive.

I completely understand your opinion, and agree with much of what you have to say. Pensions were promised to employees, and it is unfair that the companies turn around and throw them to the PBGC. Airline pilot's are being treated very unfairly, and believe me, I have experienced the junior man's screw job by being furloughed for going on 4 years. Our differences are mainly due to perspective. One thing I think that we can agree on is this: Any pilot who is not throwing every penny available into a 401k, IRA, and whatever DC plan they have available are fools. Good luck to everyone, and we'll all see what happens.

 

[sandman2122]

Wtf?

The current system is not about seniority, it is all about "juniority".

The curse that began in 1959 will soon end.

Okay it's official - you're nuts. With your comment about the seniority system, you come across so far out of touch I question if you're even an airline pilot.

Good luck finding a cure the "curse of 1959".

 

[mdanno808]

One last thing. The 65 thing will benefit some people and screw some people. Either way, one group will be happy, and one won't. Hopefully they can figure something out that will piss everyone off.

 

[100 c.i.]

What about all the furlough guys like myself that need to feed our families. The bottom line is if you did not prepare to retire at 60 do you think 65 will be different. Step aside and let the guys that are just looking to make a living have a chance and quit being so selfish. This should not even be a issue until all the furloughees are back to work and your airline starts to hire and upgrade again.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

One group will be happy, and one won't. Hopefully they can figure something out that will piss everyone off.

Really and truly, the whole group of working pilots will be better off and happier in the long term. There really are no losers among the working (or furloughed) pilots group. Longer careers mean more total career earnings and more saved for retirement. The only people who will be at a loss will be the ones who fall through the cracks during the transition by turning 60 just before the date. They will be able to be re-employed but may not come back with their seniority unless their company allowed a LOA or they were able to down-bid to an FE position at their airline.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Really and truly, the whole group of working pilots will be better off and happier in the long term.

Undaunted,

How are you going to feel when you lose your seniority number when you turn 60? Think it can’t happen – watch. You watch the lawsuits start flying. The lawsuit will contain the economic damages your group seeks to impose on the junior members of the seniority lists.

Be aware -- you don’t own that seat or your seniority number.

Your comments about how everyone will be better off and happier is both self-serving and shows how out of touch you are with reality. Make no mistake about it, this will economically harm pilots under the age of 55.

All this amounts to is a transfer of wealth from junior to senior.

In disunity,

AA767AV8TOR

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

To AA767AV8TOR: All of what you say makes no sense what so ever and sounds like the usual scare tactic used by those with a defined benefit retirement pension such as you have. I would guess that you will have a military pension too.

You see pilots like you with a pension (plus an military pension for double dipping) that allows them to "retire" at age 60 with nearly full pay, such as your situation, have a distorted idea of reality and don't really understand how selfish they are, giving no consideration to all the others who only have what they can save, never knowing if it is enough. You, on the other hand have a pension that you will receive for the rest of your life (unless the airline part is terminated and or the government goes broke).

So I say, quit trying to get all that money for no work by retiring at age 60. Get real please. It’s time to let those people who have the experience and the skills continue working at their profession instead of making up all the BS such as you like to put forth as forecasts of doom and gloom. None of what you say is of substance for consideration for or against change. The only correct question is right verses wrong, and discrimination is wrong, whether it's age discrimination or discrimination against Americans. Do you support age discrimination or discrimination against Americans over foreigners?

Just explain, if you will, why foreign pilots should be able to fly and earn his/her living flying into and out of the USA and not an American who may have served in the military and paid taxes for 40 years. I know one pilot (from AA) who will turn 60 in June and he flew combat in Vietnam and in the Gulf War. What have the foreigners like the Germans or the Japs or the Saudies done to get the privilege and not Americans?

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut: With all due respect to your thoughts about me, I have had nothing to do with any of the above accusations. Nothing ever happened at US Air or Cactus so how could anyone know what UAL or the pilot group was going to do. And Frontier, that was a UAL deal, just as it was with Air Willy. No individual or group of pilots or even me had anything do with that or the NWA - Republic deal either, or the Delta - Western deal, or the UAL - Pan Am deal either. You give me personally way to much credit and/or blame. I'm just an ordinary line pilot trying to make a living day by day while on a very rocky aviation road.

That was NOT a UAL deal. That was a pilot deal. Both ALPA carriers; some version of merger policy should have been used. BTW, FAL did a nice job of minding your picket line didn't they? Those that remeber that, know how things would have gone with USAir and AW.

When did all ICAO carriers become one house? We need to be concerned about US carriers and US pilot careers. If you are really able to effect policy on this, why are you not asking about a railroad type pension for pilots? Why are you not pushing for an air transporation policy? Ask how could it be possible that NWA's bad day at DTW could inspire the "passenger bill of rights" and wx events of the last year couldn't muster an "energy users bill of rights? Why is the airline industry the bastard child? Think big picture if you really want to fix this. Pension loss is a symptom of bigger problems. Your only reall ally here is Klako, we let that sort of imperative rule this issue and we're all screwed.

 

[Flopgut]

To AA767AV8TOR: All of what you say makes no sense what so ever and sounds like the usual scare tactic used by those with a defined benefit retirement pension such as you have. I would guess that you will have a military pension too.

You see pilots like you with a pension (plus an military pension for double dipping) that allows them to "retire" at age 60 with nearly full pay, such as your situation, have a distorted idea of reality and don't really understand how selfish they are, giving no consideration to all the others who only have what they can save, never knowing if it is enough. You, on the other hand have a pension that you will receive for the rest of your life (unless the airline part is terminated and or the government goes broke).

So I say, quit trying to get all that money for no work by retiring at age 60. Get real please. It’s time to let those people who have the experience and the skills continue working at their profession instead of making up all the BS such as you like to put forth as forecasts of doom and gloom. None of what you say is of substance for consideration for or against change. The only correct question is right verses wrong, and discrimination is wrong, whether it's age discrimination or discrimination against Americans. Do you support age discrimination or discrimination against Americans over foreigners?

Just explain, if you will, why foreign pilots should be able to fly and earn his/her living flying into and out of the USA and not an American who may have served in the military and paid taxes for 40 years. I know one pilot (from AA) who will turn 60 in June and he flew combat in Vietnam and in the Gulf War. What have the foreigners like the Germans or the Japs or the Saudies done to get the privilege and not Americans?

All of your science and pleading to stop discrimination does not answer the moral question: Do you have the right to preclude another pilot the same seniority progression you enjoyed? Further to the point: As you are perched at the top making the best money and enjoying the best quality of life for 5 more years, the rest of the profession is going to struggle to make what you got by age 60. Is that right? It's not, and you have no compromise in mind.

Go fly for an overseas carrier! They have different rules. If you're that great they would love to hire you.

 

[zonker]

I am amazed by the dissent on this issue. It seems to me that only reasons to keep age 60 are selfish and seniority based. This 60 number isn't based on scientific data- it was created by the management and for the management to have less numbers of the highest paid employees... it's about as fair a "B" scale. Oh, that's right ALPA supported that too.

No sh-t, Sherlock

There's nothing selfish on the part of those who want to abolish it?



Play with your grandkids, go fishing, buy a Cessna.

GET A LIFE!