Age 60 informal poll

[Phaedrus]

"A house divided against itself cannot stand". Wow, your creative writing is really improving. From cut and paste to the a tired old cliche you've used about 80,000 times in one thread. Yawn.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

There is growing support within the pilot unions to change the “Age 60 Rule". The following unions and pilot employee groups have gone on record that they support a change the Age 60 Rule:

CONTINENTAL (ALPA Local Executive Councils of Houston and Newark)

Not true. Bad info no such resolution has ever passed in Newark. Get your facts straight.

 

[Deadbug]

There is growing support within the pilot unions to change the “Age 60 Rule". The following unions and pilot employee groups have gone on record that they support a change the Age 60 Rule:

US AIRWAYS....

Not correct...the US Airways MEC merely conducted a relatively short-notice and short-duration POLL. With only 64% voting...BY A ONE-VOTE margin--a preference for changing the age-60 rule.

The actual significance is this: If one of the "grayest" part 121 pilot groups can only do a one-vote majority...what does that really say?

By the way, the poll, in and of itself, is not the official MEC policy. Given the one-vote spread, I don't believe the MEC can go on the record as supporting any change.

 

[Tailwheelin]

I am amazed by the dissent on this issue. It seems to me that only reasons to keep age 60 are selfish and seniority based. This 60 number isn't based on scientific data- it was created by the management and for the management to have less numbers of the highest paid employees... it's about as fair a "B" scale. Oh, that's right ALPA supported that too.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

"A house divided against itself cannot stand".

 

[Flopgut]

Undaunted: What? Are you trying to "unite" this group? You won't do that by pushing this through. You are simply trying to put your own needs in front of everyone else's, again. Just like you were going to do when UAL was going to buy USAir and Cactus; you were going to hose those guys. There no doubting your seriousness, we all know what you did to Frontier. (ALPA merger policy meant something until that stunt)

You have lived your whole career by the [seniority] sword to be sure, and this is no different. I think you're trying to hoard more seniority for yourself, so I'm going to vehemently opose your effort. Was I supposed to learn anything different from watching you? What sort of example have you set? You have never missed a chance to put your own needs first on any issue, and this is no different.

If you want to unite the group, do something selfless.

 

[Klako]

"Growing sentiment" I don't think so. More like: " in ONE person's opinion - klacko - ". That's all it is, one guy's opinion.

You guys can kiss the seniority system good by IF this policy changes......... hopefully not in my lifetime.

The current system is not about seniority, it is all about "juniority".

The curse that began in 1959 will soon end.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted: You are simply trying to put your own needs in front of everyone else's, again. Just like you were going to do when UAL was going to buy USAir and Cactus; you were going to hose those guys. There's no doubting your seriousness, we all know what you did to Frontier. (ALPA merger policy meant something until that stunt)


You have never missed a chance to put your own needs first on any issue, and this is no different.

If you want to unite the group, do something selfless.

Flopgut: With all due respect to your thoughts about me, I have had nothing to do with any of the above accusations. Nothing ever happened at US Air or Cactus so how could anyone know what UAL or the pilot group was going to do. And Frontier, that was a UAL deal, just as it was with Air Willy. No individual or group of pilots or even me had anything do with that or the NWA - Republic deal either, or the Delta - Western deal, or the UAL - Pan Am deal either. You give me personally way to much credit and/or blame. I'm just an ordinary line pilot trying to make a living day by day while on a very rocky aviation road.

Now regarding the age 60 issue, when this passes there will be closure because the whole world will be on the same page. The house will no longer be divided as I have said so many times. Right now the pilot unions are divided, and they are being conquered by management plus the government. Once we have closure there can not help but be more unity and that will lead to progress, or so I would expect.

The age 60 rule will change soon, so why not now? Is it because all those who oppose it on this board are under 55 or they are with AA and think they will retire at age 60 with full pensions (for now)?

Age 65 is for the best thing for everyone in the long term. Those that are age 59 when it changes will be the lucky ones. But it's just luck. If I'm lucky then that's just my good fortune, if it's you then you're the lucky one. The only truism is that this law should have been changed long ago so others who needed to work could have benefited.

And in a final thought, in the future 10 years or so, those that will have the option of working past age 60 will look back and say to themselves how ridiculous it was to ever have been opposed to flying past age 60.

 

[mdanno808]

I have to disagree. I know lot's of pilot's who want out the minute they turn 60. They have saved, prepared, and want to enjoy the rest of their lives. My dad told me something when the age 60 issue started coming up again (he had recently retired). He said, with my luck I'd work to 65, drive home and die of a heart attack the next day. No cruises, no vacations, no time to enjoy the grandkids. Only work and death.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I know lot's of pilot's who want out the minute they turn 60. They have saved, prepared, and want to enjoy the rest of their lives.

This was all true when most of the airline's pilots had pensions (like your dad I presume). But this has all changed now. As the pensions disappear the need to retire is overwhelmed by the need to survive.

I will tell you that every airline pilot with only a defined contribution retirement plan will want to work as long as he/she can unless that person has had great financial good fortune by something such as having a wealthy spouse or winning the state lottery. The fact is that right now it will be almost impossible for 95% of the airline pilots who start in the commuters to save enough money to comfortably retire at age 60. After all, for many pilots it's hard to even make ends meet much less sock away money for retirement. And then throw in a divorce or two (which is all too common in our profession), a serious illness in the family or some bad luck investment, and you may be flat broke when you're 60. You never know what the future will bring, good or bad.

The option of being able to work to age 65 is the only answer for the long term security of everyone.

Quit when you want to. That's the answer. Why burden yourself with limitations on providing for your family.