Age 60 informal poll

[The Prussian]

UF, you are truly an idiot savant. A furloughee will replace your pompous azz in the cockpit. I have a 22 Jan recall class; just 7 days before you're put out to pasture. I will go on mil leave, but I know that all of the pilots on the UAL seniority list below me are well qualified.
Here's how it's going to go with your replacement. A 767 Captain will bid up to 777 Capt and replace you. Three cheers! A 737/320 Captain will bid up to 767 Cap. A 777/400 FO will bid up to 737/320Capt. A 767 FO will bid up to 777/400 FO. A 737/320Fo will bid up to 767 FO. A furloughee will be recalled to fill the 737/320 FO vacancy. And your azz will be, thankfully, retired. 29 Jan. Let's count the days. Less than 65.

I'm amazed that you or any other idiot thinks that the rule is going to change any time soon.

You have besmirched yourself so much on this and other boards that I would be surprised if many attend your retirement cake cutting. Hopefully they'll forget to call the fire dept. You have proven that you don't deserve such an honor. You, sir, are a small c.

Andy...You can debate the issues all you want...but I've never heard UF personally deride you, call you names, or wish ill upon you. He debates the issues staying above the belt, and conducts himself as a gentleman on this board IMO. If you're furloughed, he's not the one whose kept you out of a job (he's been in his 50's throughout this exchange)...it's your management that's made some pretty big missteps...and your union is not without blame in this either. You're the one who's sounding like a pompous idiot.

While UF appears to be a class act, you and FD appear to be in class envy....if not class idiots.

 

[Freight Dog]

Prussian... I'm sorry, but when the man says his coworkers at UAL are not experienced enough to replace him, that man is spitting in the face of every UAL pilot out there that's below him on the seniority list, from the freshly recalled A320 FO to the seniormost 767 captain, then in the same post proceeds to use various accidents and attributes them to "inexperience" despite the official probable causes. Not only did he lose his credibility with that crap, but the whole post was insulting and offensive even though he didn't call anyone names.

If you failed to notice that, regardless of which side of the argument you're on, your cognitive and mental abilities should be challenged.

 

[Flybynite]

Prussian... I'm sorry, but when the man says his coworkers at UAL are not experienced enough to replace him, that man is spitting in the face of every UAL pilot out there that's below him on the seniority list, from the freshly recalled A320 FO to the seniormost 767 captain, then in the same post proceeds to use various accidents and attributes them to "inexperience" despite the official probable causes. Not only did he lose his credibility with that crap, but the whole post was insulting and offensive even though he didn't call anyone names.

If you failed to notice that, regardless of which side of the argument you're on, your cognitive and mental abilities should be challenged.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you post this garbage basically "spitting in the face" of every captain you fly with?

"But I can't tell you how many mistakes I catch from older guys, from simple math and simple paperwork, to them just not quite "getting" the re-route clearance, to confused looks when things don't quite go the way things normally do, to simple multitasking, to them "forgetting" to flare, the list goes on and on. But man, God help me if I so much as suggest that they're not quite as healthy and able as they once were. They are up at arms, and they ALL think they can keep trucking well beyond 60. "

Guess you don't remember that. Maybe you need to look in the mirror occasionally.

 

[Freight Dog]

Notice I said "older guys" and not captains.

The particular individual I'm talking about when I mentioned "getting" the re-route clearance to simple multitasking was actually my SIC in King Air 350. Mind you, he was a retired heavy captain who still held on to his first class medical.

I didn't get into the age 60 debate with him. I just asked him if he felt he could go right back to the heavy without skipping a beat. His answer was "without a doubt."

Super nice guy! We had a great trip... But what I observed was that he refused to acknowledge aging, and that his cognitive and mental abilities started deteriorating with age. That's what worries me and what I find dangerous.

How about an instance when I flew with a now-retired captain who acknowledged the proper callouts on an ILS, yet didn't push up the power levers on an ILS and set off a stick shaker?? On top of that, I don't know what it was with him, but at night, he even admitted his night vision wasn't
"quite what it used to be" and his night landings were rather interesting... He had less than a year to retirement when this happened.

On the other hand, I flew with some super sharp captains who were sharp all the way to their retirement date.

My experience was that for every one pilot that's perfectly fine to keep going past 60, at least three to four aren't.

Now here's the problem....

How do you measure who's up to par at 60 and who's not? None of these examples I mentioned above were ready to hang up the headsets, yet they were more than ripe enough to call it a career. Those people are the problem.

Aging is a decline that people refuse to admit affects them. Do we need to wait for someone to auger in and go... well, they were too old and fell asleep or their bladder or ticker gave in, or they just didn't compute this right away? Or do we err on the side of safety?

Why mess with a safety item that's worked well in the past only to benefit minority at the expense of the majority?

 

[Flybynite]

Now here's the problem....

How do you measure who's up to par at 60 and who's not? minority at the expense of the majority?

Same way you determine if an f/o is capable of occupying the right seat, Checkrides and an FAA medical certificate. Trust me, there are plenty of captains who have a laundry list of f-ups by their f/o's, might even have your name associated with it.

 

[Freight Dog]

Well bud, that question is why the FAA hasn't raised the retirement age before. Apparently, they're not convinced that checkrides and medical are enough. I agree.

Throw in cognitive and mental abilities testing for anyone above age 45 or 50, and you might have a better case.

Your poor financial planning is not my emergency.

 

[Flybynite]

Well bud, the question

Well bud, the answer

 

[Freight Dog]

.....

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Prussian: This will be post 1310 on an 88 page thread, Undaunted has carried on like an aloof and pompous goofball the entire time. Andy has been furloughed for a very long time and isn't saying anything untrue or inappropriate, you think you can cut him a break?

 

[Flopgut]

I've written this before: This is like the NFL. THe hardest thing to do is get in the game. You might be a good player and be able to contribute, but if you don't get a chance on the field, you'll never break out. Tony Romo was content to work backup, learn the system and the offense. He's now a top rated QB, the team is doing well, and they can't line up mechandising fast enough for him. He got a shot, if the league was seniority based, he would not have. If Andy could directly replace Undaunted, he might prove to be a better heavy captain, and UAL might be better off. DOH makes you better off, but doesn't guarantee you're better.