Age 60 informal poll

[FoxHunter]

Foxhunter. For once, answer the question:

If age isn't an issue why the caveat under 60 with over 60?

If age is an issue then come up and propose something better than simply changing a number. The new rule won't make the skies safer. That is my beef. It may make the skies less safe. I have a problem with that. This isn't about greenbacks for me. For you it is. You have said so in previous posts. That is evil motive.

Changing the rule will not make the skies less safe. I've spent 8+ years on furlough, plus many more very junior so I understand where the opposition to the change is coming from. The two things that make it a perfect storm for change is the failed pensions plus the ICAO change. The age 65 limit is still bogus, the one pilot under age 60 is also bogus, but that is what has been proposed and I expect that is what we will have. The idea that this change will push all the junior people back five years is also bogus. Some will only go a few months past age 60, some a few year, and some to age 65 or older if that number is eliminated. I do believe at some future date the world will go the way of Canada, Australia, and New Zealand with no upper limit.

I would hope that everyone would have the luck in this industry that I have had. I can also say that there were many times that I thought I was having no luck at all, but in hind sight I know I was wrong. I enjoy my job, enjoy going to work. If I thought I was slipping I would quit tomorrow.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Son, if you were flying with me it would be a treat even if I knew you had fought the change. I flew with enough AHs before there was such a thing as CRM to make sure that there is a relaxed professional cockpit. If you want to have a beer and dinner, fine, if not that is also fine.

Now if an overt attitude problem that is causing problems you will be removed from the trip. The Chief Pilot and the VP of OPS can decide your future.

Foxhunter,

Sounds pretty arrogant coming from you. It looks like you think it’s a slam dunk -- like you’re counting on getting Age 65 plus the left seat plus all the amenities. I wouldn’t be spending your unearned windfall quite yet. This fight is far from over.

If age 65 passes, all pilots over age 60 go to the end of the seniority list of the pilots hired under ago 60. You can call HR all you want but you do it from the right seat.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

The idea that this change will push all the junior people back five years is also bogus. Some will only go a few months past age 60, some a few year, and some to age 65 or older if that number is eliminated.

Foxhunter,

Where is your data to support your claim. Truth is you have none. You have no idea of where this industry is going in a few years let alone one week. Except for probably the freighter guys, we are all only one terriorist hit away from a industry wide bankruptcy.

When the age changes, you can count on the majority of pilots going to the full retirement age. Look at past history.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Changing the rule will not make the skies less safe.

If I thought I was slipping I would quit tomorrow.

Foxhunter,

Again, where is your data claiming the skies will not be less safe? Even ICAO admits as much when they're only allowing one pilot over the age of 60 in the cockpit. So not only will you be stealing our jobs, but then we will have to baby-sit you on top of it. Now that's bogus.

If you thought you we're slipping you would quit tomorrow -- yeah right. You really think you can make an honest assessment of your own flying skills? The sports world is littered with players making an honest assessment of their own skills and playing way past their prime. Truth is if a pilot can continue to make money, most will continue to fly regardless of what they think their true flying skills are -- it's human nature. I see it all the time with guys showing up to work sick because they don’t want to lose the time.

Over the years I have flown with the old two stripers who flew well into their 60's and 70's. Now some were sharp, but there were others that were completely out to lunch with most of them sleeping the majority of time between DFW and HNL. It would be interesting to see some good data, but you can take it to bank that a huge majority of them were calling in sick one or twice a month.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Cyclone]

Foxhunter. Answer the questions.

If you think age 60 is bogus OK. You said you also think the ICAO proposal is bogus.
Do you support the ICAO proposal?
How do you explain that the ICAO proposal forces an under 60 guy to fly with an over 60 guy? Do you think this is because age is an issue?
Do you think age is an issue?
If not, then you are OK with 80+ year olds flying airliners?
If yes then how would you screen?

Some of us here really do care about safety and we would be interested to hear from you on how we could keep our skies safe and have a better rule.

Changing the number from a to b isn't changing the rule it is just changing the number. This will make the skies less safe because older people who lose skills as they age will be allowed to fly. You will be less safe in five years than you are now...just like you will be needing more cialis for your chalice. It's going to happen.

 

[Klako]

Over the years I have flown with the old two stripers who flew well into their 60's and 70's. Now some were sharp, but there were others that were completely out to lunch with most of them sleeping the majority of time between DFW and HNL. It would be interesting to see some good data, but you can take it to bank that a huge majority of them were calling in sick one or twice a month.

AA767AV8TOR

It appears that the problem you describe is not the result of aging but that of a sick airline and sick union.
It is becoming clear that as a result of recent actions by the ALPA and APA, the so-called legacy carriers like United, American, Northwest and Delta are condemned to the death throws of extinction. Greed, ineptness and blindness to reality will also destroy the likes of the ALPA and APA. The old guard pioneers of the golden age of aviation should be raging mad in their graves at the miss deeds of today’s big union politics.

 

[Cyclone]

Huh?

Klako

I think most of those problems are due to a tough economy, management miscues and a changing environment.

And besides just what does that have to do with the notion that the pro 60 crowd is mistaken about their endeavor? Maybe you can explain why the ICAO rule includes a requirement for you to have someone under 60 if you are over 60. Do you think aging is an issue?

If yes how would you screen for old age issues?
If no then you think the ICAO rule is bad?

What would you propose that is better?

Please answer the questions. Logically.

 

[FoxHunter]

If age 65 passes, all pilots over age 60 go to the end of the seniority list of the pilots hired under ago 60. You can call HR all you want but you do it from the right seat.

AA767AV8TOR

I would not be surprised if APA tried that. The problem would be there would be a good chance that you would have to cough up a great deal of money to pay for the settlement. Could be you'll see the senior pilots get a huge sum.:laugh:

Good luck!

 

[FoxHunter]

Foxhunter,

If you thought you we're slipping you would quit tomorrow -- yeah right. You really think you can make an honest assessment of your own flying skills? The sports world is littered with players making an honest assessment of their own skills and playing way past their prime.
AA767AV8TOR

Poor analogy, because in the sports world only the very best make it to the top and stay there. I have no doubt Tiger Woods at age 65 will be better than most pros, even though he has sliped from age 30 due to the physical nature of the game.
\

Over the years I have flown with the old two stripers who flew well into their 60's and 70's. Now some were sharp, but there were others that were completely out to lunch with most of them sleeping the majority of time between DFW and HNL. It would be interesting to see some good data, but you can take it to bank that a huge majority of them were calling in sick one or twice a month.

AA767AV8TOR

The people that have trouble in their 60s had the same problems in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. There may be an exception, but it is rare.

 

[General Lee]

Foxhunter,

Why would ICAO recommend NOT having 2 over age 60 pilots in the same 2 man cockpit at the same time? Any reason? You seem to avoid that question. Also, can you see the expansion in Europe with the LCCs? Could that be a reason for a change? A pilot shortage over there? Do we have one here?

Bye Bye--General Lee