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Ag-Pilot Ingrates...

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How do you guys lay down that carcinogenic stuff day after day and not die young? I know the passes are made progressively upwind, but I'd fear the toxins more than the low-altitude flying.
It's not a problem. You'll be very hard pressed to find an ag pilot who's ever been sick from chemical.

How do we dispense economic poison and not get sick? We don't breathe it or act stupidly. Simply because you can smell it doesn't mean you're being poisoned by it, and you can't compare what you smelled in a wrecked airplane to what a working pilot experiences in an intact airplane. If you walk into a Co-Op to buy chemical, you're going to smell it there, too...doesn't mean you're being poisoned by carcinogens.

Has anybody done a toxicology profile of ag pilots?
There would be no point.

When working with organophosphates such as Parathion, Malathion, etc, some operators have traditionally had a cholinesterase blood workup done at the start of the season. I've had it done myself, and in my opinion, it's a wise thing to do. This isn't a toxicology test, it's a baseline test to establish what the cholinesterase level is for an individual, and this is used to determine emergency medical treatment for organophosphate poisoning.

Way back when, it as common to keep a jar of atropine tablets handy, for some operators (we had some). Some felt that in a poisoning situation, a rapid oral dose of atropine was in order. It's dangerous because the treatment for organophosphate poisoning is a lethal dose of atropine, followed by a lethal dose of protopam chloride (2-pam) to counteract the atropine, then treatment for 2pam poisoning. (The military used the same thing using two injection needles, for organophosphate poisoning during chemical warfare...you shoot yourself up with the atropine, and someone else shoots you up with the protopam after).

If one has a known cholinesterase level, then emergency medical services can administer accurate dosages to counteract the poisoning, and will know given a new cholinesterase test exactly what level of poisoning has occurred. That's the only reason for the test. It's simply a precaution.

(If you saw the movie The Rock, with Sean Connery, the green stuff in the little glass spheres would have been an organophosphate, and describe somewhat the poisoning process...it's an interruption of the chemical which allows control over one's nervous system, and interrupts certain functions like the heart, lungs, etc. Chemicals such as Vx and later products fit this category in chemical warfare, and in application are at much higher dosages than commercial pesticides. However, in concentration (such as how it's received in the barrell), chemicals such as 9 lb parathion are highly lethal: a drop on your tongue will kill you).

The secret is to not contaminate yourself in handling, mixing or application. Chemical poisoning is the least of my worries when performing ag work.
 
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How do you guys lay down that carcinogenic stuff day after day and not die young? I know the passes are made progressively upwind, but I'd fear the toxins more than the low-altitude flying. Has anybody done a toxicology profile of ag pilots? This is the biggest reason I never wanted to do it. Just wondering......[/QUOTE]

I had a guy call me once claiming I was drifting chemical onto his property just because he could smell it. After several minutes of trying to explain otherwise, I gave up and went into red neck mode. I said, "Look, you go take a huge dump, then moments later,your wife goes into the restroom and smells it. Did you crap on her?" Of course I'm not nearly as philosophical as Avbug, but he quit calling.
 
Drink

In 1987 I came across a wrecked ag-plane next to a hangar in GXY. It was a bare fuselage. All I remember are the stampings on the rudder pedals which said Vought and the overwhelming smell of insecticide. Somebody told me the pilot absorbed or forcefully drank a great deal of it during the crash and was in the hospital.

How do you guys lay down that carcinogenic stuff day after day and not die young? I know the passes are made progressively upwind, but I'd fear the toxins more than the low-altitude flying. Has anybody done a toxicology profile of ag pilots? This is the biggest reason I never wanted to do it. Just wondering......

My dad once told me a story. He had just bought a tired pawnee to replace a scout and was way behind. He got some help from an older opperater in the area, at the end of the first day the old guy asked him where the beer cooler was. My dad answered why. The older gent responded "Sunny Boy you have to drink a six pack every evening so you will piss out all the bad stuff." My Dad is 58 now and has raised 4 kids and put us threw college. I have a great deal of respect for this occupation, I wish it was still like the good old days. Our area had at one time 8 opperators within about 30 miles. We are all that is left, and still don't fly the acres we did then.
 
Whats a good way to start out in the spray business? Sounds like my kind of way of life. It was after all the Ag-pilot spraying the citrus trees in Chandler Arizona in the late 70's that sparked my nutty need to fly. Any advice is appreciated.
 
There are no good ways to start out, unfortunately because the ag industry has never been an entry level job. That is, the traditional route in involved mixing chemicals and flagging fields for several years while working on aircraft and plowing fields, and eventually being allowed to fly a little rinse over fields, and finally being put in an airplane little by little where you could work.

Today many operators won't talk to you unless you've got satloc experience (or agnav, or other agricultural application GPS systems with a lightbar), and won't be interested without a minimum of a thousand hours of tailwheel and ag time. Therein lies the catch 22...no ag time, can't get an ag job...need an ag job to get ag time.

The best way is to get sold aircraft handling skills, including solid conventional gear (tailwheel) experience. Get familiar with farming practices, chemical application, insects, crops, plants, and weeds for the area you'll be working. There are a few ag schools out there, but most are simply operations that various ag companies set up to try to survive for another year or two. Most don't last very long, and few operators look highly upon them. They may, however, give you an introduction to what ag work is about. They're expensive, as much as half of what a type rating may cost, to the cost of a full type rating, and there's no ag rating to put on your certificate, and no guarantee of a job...and you come away with a handfull of hours that doesn't come close to meeting any insurance requirements. (Even Simuflite has an ag program, but it's a simulator program and you can't simulate ag work...most agree it's not worth much more than learning to start a PT-6...).

A background in aviation maintenance is very helpful, though not as essential as it once was. It's still highly valued, and will make you a lot more marketable to ag operators.

The only way to get a job in ag aviation has always been to shake hands across the desk of the person doing the hiring, and counsel given decades ago still rings true today, when it comes to a job search. Start driving and ask every ag operator you see about a job. Unless you're well known in the business and have a background that enables you to call up and ask to go to work, going out in person and beating the bushes is really the only way.
 
Thanks Bug for taking the time to respond. Sounds like getting into the spay biz is like any other aviation job...gotta put one foot in front of the other and hit the streets. I've done just about everything else in aviation and spraying sounds like "fun." Might as well enjoy what you do as a pilot. Sitting here, unemployed-again, makes you think about why you got into the cockpit in the first place. For me, it was that John Wayne like figure who was spraying those fields.
 
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This is a really interesting thread. On a side note, FlyLowMan that is the coolest formation pic I've ever seen. Who are those guys?
 

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