Aerobatic Twin

[sky37d]

This evening, I was out practicing manuevers, and pulled a 60 degree bank, a little rudder, and elevator, to climb a lot while turning. There was a little grunt factor, some where between ferris wheel and tilt a whirl. This caused me to think that perhaps a skymaster isn't the best plane to be doing this kind of stuff in. I know there are ton's of aerobatic singles, pitts, extra, etc, but what about a twin? You know, something you might actually want to own, and go more than 50 miles in.

Thanks

 

[westwind]

Bob Hoover used to perform aerobatics in a Shrike Commander, I beleive. Not sure how he was able to get away with that one. aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=66958 has an aerobatic 33 Bonanza for sale with some good specs and what maneuvers it is approved for. This would make a X-C pretty comfortable.

 

[milplt]

Bob Hoover

When asked about flying aerobatics in the twin, Bob Hoover said (paraphrasing, not quoting) that you don't need an aerobatic airplane to fly aerobatics, you need an aerobatic airplane to fly aerobatics poorly. I've seen, and someone probably has, video taken from inside the aircraft of him pouring a glass of water/tea from a pitcher while doing a barrel roll - maintaining positive g on the aircraft the entire time.

 

[sky37d]

Thanks,
I guess the next thing is a g-meter so I can tell what i'm pulling

 

[Swass]

I know of some, there called F-14's and F-18's.

 

[rumpletumbler]

When asked about flying aerobatics in the twin, Bob Hoover said (paraphrasing, not quoting) that you don't need an aerobatic airplane to fly aerobatics, you need an aerobatic airplane to fly aerobatics poorly.

The only aircraft I've ever been in doing a roll was a Citation. There were a couple done and my coffee didn't spill. I was not a crewmember on that aircraft. There is truth to Hoover's statement UNTIL somebody messes up. Everyone doesn't have flawless technique all the time and to do aerobatics in an aircraft not certified for them or without the proper training is in my opinion like playing russian roulette.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'd imagine that most pilots would do aerobatics "poorly" until they developed a good technique with time and training in an aerobatic airplane.

As to whether there are any civilian twins that are specifically rated for aerobatic flight, I'd say probably not.

 

[sky37d]

I know of some, there called F-14's and F-18's.

Yeah, they are like Pitts and Extra's though, not really practical. Thought about a BAC Strikemaster, or Provost, at least they have 2 seats, but they are experimental exhibition, not practical. Oh, and they burn more than 20 gallons per hour, too.

 

[CorpJetPilot]

When I was on the airshow circuit years back, I saw a guy, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong), his name was Jolly Roger or something like that....anyway, he did an act in a solid black Aerostar 700. I've also see a routine in a modified Beech-18.

 

[Citationkid]

There was a airshow preformer using a Lear 23 and Beech 18, a while back some one on this site posted a link to his site. I can't seem to find it any more.

 

[IP076]

There was also the guy who flew aerobatics in a Partnavia...I think...

His wife used to do the show's announcing. There is video out there of one of his performances...that doesn't end so well. I don't know the tail number, but one could probably find the video on the net.

 

[sky37d]

If I figure out how to do 1G rolls, is it 'legal' for me to do so? I figure as long as I'm not doing tail slides, or spins, things that really stress the airframe, it should be okay. Am I correct in that assumption? Do I need a waiver or something?

 

[EagleRJ]

If I figure out how to do 1G rolls, is it 'legal' for me to do so? I figure as long as I'm not doing tail slides, or spins, things that really stress the airframe, it should be okay. Am I correct in that assumption? Do I need a waiver or something?

The FAA considers "aerobatic" to be:

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.

"abnormal attitude" is anything beyond 60 degrees of bank or 30 degrees of pitch, so even if everything is nice and smooth, a roll is still considered aerobatic. To be legal, the aircraft has to be certified in the aerobatic category (or you need to have the aforementioned waiver), and all occupants need to be wearing a parachute.

Even if you think your plane will roll really nicely (and it probably will), you'll be a test pilot and you'll be tempting fate. It's true that large aircraft like the B707 have been rolled, but if your form isn't good, you might not recover. If you let the nose drop too much, the aircraft's roll authority might not be enough to bring it all the way around, and as the airspeed increases past Vne, the wings might fail in overload as you try to return to level flight. It's happened before.

 

[DX Rick]

Bob Hoover

I've seen his show many times. The guy is awesome to say the least. I remember an interview were he claims he never pulls more than 1G the whole time in the Shrike.

 

[sky37d]

I read this, someone uses it as their tagline.


Gene then said something about ". . . does a great barrel roll." This I ignored, although there was some fairly noticeable turbulence shortly thereafter that took some unusual attitude recovery techniques to tame. - Budd Davisson, Navion pirep

So, no parachute for this guy, no waivers, just some unusual attitude recovery techniques!!!

 

[diggertwo]

Aerostar

Back in the 80's, Jimmy Franklin (of the jet Waco fame) used to fly a black Aerostar. His act's premise was that he was a space traveller named Zar and was trying to save the universe, or something like that. That act was a blast for me as a kid (he used to dress in all black and wear a black motorcycle helmet, so you would never see who he was) and to this day I have never seen someone fly an aircraft so smoothly. Like Hoover flew in the Shrike, all of the maneuvers were positive g, but it takes a pilot a lot of skill to fly like that. He was, and still is, the reason I got into aerobatics and I still have a blast seeing him fly.

 

[erj-145mech]

There was also the guy who flew aerobatics in a Partnavia...I think...

His wife used to do the show's announcing. There is video out there of one of his performances...that doesn't end so well. I don't know the tail number, but one could probably find the video on the net.

The wings peeled off during his routine, while his wife was narrating, it was on the 6:00 news about 20 years ago, with video.

 

[erj-145mech]

There was a airshow preformer using a Lear 23 and Beech 18, a while back some one on this site posted a link to his site. I can't seem to find it any more.

Thats Bobby Younkin from Springdale, Arkansas. He also used a Waco with a R-1340, 600 horsepower Pratt Whitney radial.

 

[ibaflyer]

There is a guy named Steve Weaver from Fairmont, West Virginia and he did/does an aerobatic show using a Skymaster. Rolls, Loops and a Hammer head here and there. No hard core areobatics but still fun. I think that he still has the same plane that he used.

Give him a call and ask if he had to beef up anything. He has an aircraft sales business. "Steve Weaver Aircraft Sales" usually has ads in Trade-a-Plane.

Good luck!

 

[SCT]

ibaflyer,


Earlier in my career, I met Steve Weaver several times when I was ferrying ac for dealers in the midwest. He is a true gentleman and an interesting guy.

His 337, named "Bodacious" ,I believe was stock. I saw him perform his routine in ZZV, OH. Last I heard, he gave up is aerobatics w/ the Cessna. On a side note, his 337 was the ac in the made for TV S. King movie about the vampire that flew from airport to airport.

SCT