Advice to aspiring airline pilots

[cldsfr79]

Accoding to your aircraft flown and flight time, I wouldn't hang out in a regional if you have to. I was in a regional for 3 years, was promised a quick upgrade (6 months to a year) and was furloughed as an FO, 3 years later. The airline industry can be unstable, ask the tens of thousands of furloughed pilots in the last couple of decades.

I have always had a dream to be an airline pilot, I never thought of doing anything else, but when I got the door slammed in my face, I started to think and examined the history of the post-deregulation aera. I quickly saw that the fractional industry is the way to go. It's not some sort of side job or lateral step from a regional, it's a whole new ball game. I think the pay is good and the benifits are out standing. (Take a look at airlinepilotcentral.com for a break down of quick company info.) I fly every where, see everything, and have a chance to fly many different type of advanced aircraft. A fractional can be a place to retire.

What about job security? That is the million dollar question. All I can say is that the rich will always be rich and every time there is some sort of terrorist activity, we get more business.

What ever you do, take time to think about it. If you have that bug to be an airline pilot, than go for it. If you are willing to try something new and exciting, take a look at the fractionals.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Uh, what?

Exactly, everyman for himself, get to the head of the line quick as possible. Pre-911, you needed 2,000-3,000 hrs just to be competitive for an airline like Mesa. It's like there was actually honor in paying your dues. There weren't any opportunities to jump right out of school into the right seat of a CRJ. You had to go build time flying urine samples cross country in a P.O.S. C210 in some pretty bad weather. Those days, for the time being, are gone. Do you want to fly a turbo prop out of college or a jet? Cause the jet will make you better money starting in your second year. 30W...that was 6 years ago. Nothing against it, but it was a different playing field back then, just as it will be a different playing field a year from now. Remember the whole line and water thing...

 

[Mud Eagle]

Exactly, everyman for himself, get to the head of the line quick as possible.

Wow. Do you really think that way, or are you really just saying that you find it disappointing that at the bottom levels of the commercial piloting biz, it's very easy to get a better paying, better equipment job today than 10 years ago?

Paying your dues in the flying industry is not a thing of the 90s...it was also a thing of every decade since the introduction of commercial air travel. It's not any less relevant today than it was then. The individual steps may have changed, but in an industry where your status is defined by your experience, that's not going away.

While I agree that it's troubling that Mesa is lowering the bar, and that many young pilots are chomping at the bit to take those low-paying jobs, I don't agree that this means all bets are off and that it's everyone for themselves. The mid- and top-tier jobs are still going to take lots of time and experience to get to, even if there are folks "cutting in line" at the bottom.

 

[Goose Egg]

What ever you do, take time to think about it. If you have that bug to be an airline pilot, than go for it. If you are willing to try something new and exciting, take a look at the fractionals.

Amen! This is my thought process: Being an airline pilot at a major would be great for the first few years. The prestige, the pay, the heavy equipment, the strutting around the terminal, the competence that your friends and neigbhors assume you have--that would be awesome for a little while. But the thought of doing nothing but showing up an hour before departure, flying to the same airports, possibly in the same type, SID/Autopilot enroute/STAR/vectors to approach ad nauseum to the same collection of airports, hour after hour, day after day, year after year for the next 30 years is something that makes me physically ill. I love flying, but no human should be forced to endure such torture. I need variety, I need hands-on, and I need to do my own flight planning. That is one of the ways that I will define career success.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Speaking of paying your dues, anyone ever read E. Gann "Fate is the Hunter" or R. Buck's "North Star over my Shoulder". Talk about paying dues in the 1930's

 

[Goose Egg]

Speaking of paying your dues, anyone ever read E. Gann "Fate is the Hunter" or R. Buck's "North Star over my Shoulder". Talk about paying dues in the 1930's

Awesome book. Couldn't put it down.

-Goose

 

[mcjohn]

West with the Night - Beryl Markham. Hemingway described this pilot as writing circles around all who consider themselves writers.

 

[Occam's Razor]

West with the Night - Beryl Markham. Hemingway described this pilot as writing circles around all who consider themselves writers.

Hemingway also described shotgun shells as "Tasty!"

Ok...I'm bad.

 

[mcjohn]

I'll go to a crappy pay regional turbo prop outfit to get a fast upgrade no doubt and stay for 1500-3000 TPIC depending on which company it is. I'll fly for Ram or Flight Express starting this spring if I don't have the crappy regional fastest upgrade job by then. All the regionals are starting at $19 now so it doesn't really matter where the hell you go as long as you get the quickest upgrade possible without tarnishing the 'ol resume.

I'm picking up on TPIC in jet as opposed to prop is becoming a huge thing to consider now but thats why everyone is stuck in the right seat for so many years holding out for the jet PIC. Seems like folks who go to Mesa and GoJet etc. (quick upgrade to jet PIC) suffer the consequence. I just don't buy that whatever it takes to get jet PIC is the way to go and would not like being an FO for more than a year and half tops. Everyone says, if you can fly all the turbo prop regional equipment you sure as hell can fly a jet.

 

[pilotyip]

TP PIC is better TJ SIC in almost every hiring situation

 

[Goose Egg]

TP PIC is better TJ SIC in almost every hiring situation

Interesting. I pretty much figured that.

-Goose

 

[mcjohn]

But, TJ SIC is better than TP SIC right? I'd hate be stuck in the right seat of a TP too long. That's my biggest fear.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Wow. Do you really think that way, or are you really just saying that you find it disappointing that at the bottom levels of the commercial piloting biz, it's very easy to get a better paying, better equipment job today than 10 years ago?

No...I'm saying times change. Alot of people try to say that you should go get hired by a shady operation offering quick upgrades and no pay. I say, take the better paycheck and better equipment. PIC time will come when it comes.

You and I are using the term "Paying Dues" in different contexts. I'm reffering to pre 9/11 when you had to actually go build flight time flying whatever you could find, whether it was check hauling or ferrying aircraft, etc. Today, you pay your dues in the right seat of a turbine powered 121 operator. Two VERY different worlds.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Turbine PIC is Turbine PIC, whether it's a turbojet or a prop...

 

[vectorvictor]

Speaking of paying your dues, anyone ever read E. Gann "Fate is the Hunter" or R. Buck's "North Star over my Shoulder". Talk about paying dues in the 1930's

I read 'em both. They should be as mandatory read for anyone getting into the business. I think "Fate is the Hunter" is the only book to really describe what it is like to be an FO. The other mandatory read is the Bible of avitation, "Stick and Rudder." If you are really into it you can try and digest aerodynamics for the Naval aviator.

VV

 

[pilotyip]

On an application an hour PIC TJ will carry a higher weight factor than an hour of PIC TP.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if its a jet or a prop, RAMEN Noodles taste the same!!!

 

[JFReservist]

just a few opinions- for what they're worth

1) uhhh, military flying is a good way to pay dues, bills and gets you PIC quickly. And lately, never a dull moment

2) All books mentioned are great except the naval whatever

3) Speaking of naval whatevers, Goose - from your posts I'd have figured you to be more of a log rider, not one of them fancy Harbours. Had one - never felt right after the bottom turn.

of course, opinions are like ...

 

[AirMugsy]

........

 

[pilotyip]

Yea I think the military is great way to pay your dues, if you don't mind being gone from home for long periods of time. Being sent places you don't want to go, living with 5 other pilots in a 12 X 10 room, and picking up 3-4 years of non-flying duties. Plus you only get about 2000-3000 hours of flight time in your 10 years of obligated service. But the equipment is great, the training the best you will get anywhere, and the guys you fly with are remarkable.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Yea I think the military is great way to pay your dues, if you don't mind being gone from home for long periods of time. Being sent places you don't want to go, living with 5 other pilots in a 12 X 10 room, and picking up 3-4 years of non-flying duties. Plus you only get about 2000-3000 hours of flight time in your 10 years of obligated service. But the equipment is great, the training the best you will get anywhere, and the guys you fly with are remarkable.

In all fairness, in a (fighter) guy's 10-year hitch (2-3 flying assignments), he will probably only have 2 years not flying. Obviously that depends a lot on career flow.

Don't forget that those hours, at least for a fighter guys, are PIC turbine from the get-go. In terms of total time, it's not a lot, you're right...but it's quality time.

Regarding the deployed locations and living conditions, are those really much worse than living in a crash pad or hotel room-to-hotel room? Yes, they're often located in countries that suck beyond belief.

 

[Kugelblitz]

If you are now or ever plan on getting married and having children, DON'T BECOME AN AIRLINE PILOT.

You will be very, very sorry if you press on with this. This job is not what you think. Currently with CAL, around 10,000 hrs. and 6 different airlines including 3 majors talking to you.

 

[MATHEWS]

Thanks for the tip Kugelblitz....sorry to say many of us leave happy family lives, its about having realistic expectations.

 

[Goose Egg]

3) Goose - from your posts I'd have figured you to be more of a log rider, not one of them fancy Harbours. Had one - never felt right after the bottom turn.

You had me figured right. This is what I'd call "trying something new." Had a logish longboard, but ended up selling it to my roomate. As a replacement I picked up a 9'4" Harbour Terry Simms. I haven't had a chance to get out on it yet, seeing as the water temp is about 30 right now. But I'll let you know how it goes. I was looking to go "turny" and was even thinking about trying out something shorter, but they my current board showed up at the shop, and well, you kind of have to jump on used longboards--they don't stay around too long, and it fit the "turny" bill. Anyway, I kind of liked it because the tail is pulled in a bit, so it could handle a little more wave energy. I noticed my previous board started feeling a bit wierd at head-high and over--couldn't quite handle the juice. And it's got those fancy Harbour channels under the nose so it can still be noseridden, or so they say. But rest assured, I'm still planning on adding a single-fin noserider log type to quiver someday soon. Maybe a retro fish too. Those just look cool.

edit: I should be mentioned that if surfing skill were comapared to flying skill, I'd just be starting my instrument rating Lots of fun though. I love to get out whenever I can.

-Goose