ADIZ Buster's Statement

[smellthejeta]

That's a classic situation in aviation - and many other fields. While doing something (or not doing something) may be technically legal, it may not be very smart.

I probably should have elaborated. The dude said he checked his wx brief via duats, IIRC. With that in mind, I'm not faulting him for not calling wx brief. Hell, I don't use them anymore unless I need an obscure phone number. Flight instructors these days (or I should say 5 years ago) never incorporated GPS into training. It was discussed as a "toy" and not as a subsitute for traditional (old school) navigational methods. I didn't get mine until I busted the Baltimore B and then I realized how much easier life is with one. I also never even heard of flight following until that same incident (happened right after my PPL ride and I swtiched my home airport. The controller said afterward "hey, if you call us, we can help you out BEFORE you get into trouble"). Even before the ADIZ, there was no easy way to navigate THROUGH The DC area. All of the VOR's are colocated on the primary airports.

There is some airspace where ALL available tools should be used (and taught). I won't fault the guy for not using them if he were taught that they were "toys" or "frills" and REAL pilots don't use them.

 

[gfvalvo]

I probably should have elaborated. The dude said he checked his wx brief via duats, IIRC. With that in mind, I'm not faulting him for not calling wx brief

Sure is nice though to have your voice on tape asking about TFR's and getting all the info, especially around the ADIZ. Also, FSS is the only way to file a flight plan for ADIZ penetration.

Flight instructors these days (or I should say 5 years ago) never incorporated GPS into training. It was discussed as a "toy" and not as a subsitute for traditional (old school) navigational methods.

Any CFI giving instruction within the shadow of the ADIZ should cover ADIZ penetration and avoidance procedures, including GPS. Lancaster is less than 30 nm from the ADIZ boundary. Assuming this guy's BFR is current (or is that another busted FAR?), he's been with an instructor since the ADIZ was implemented.

I also never even heard of flight following until that same incident (happened right after my PPL ride and I swtiched my home airport

I'd say your instructor was negligent.

Even before the ADIZ, there was no easy way to navigate THROUGH The DC area.

Pre-ADIZ I found the controllers to be pretty cooperative with Class B clearances. You have to talk to them though. In fact, it was easier VFR than IFR.

All of the VOR's are colocated on the primary airports.

LNS..KLBT ---> 356 nm
LNS.MRB.LDN..KLBT ---> 378 nm Totally clear of ADIZ and Class B (must make sure P40 hasn't been expanded) and you don't have to talk to ANYBODY.

There is some airspace where ALL available tools should be used (and taught).

Again, Lancaster is less than 30 nm from the ADIZ boundary. I'd say that qualifies.


Bottem Line: The guy had his head firmly inserted up his a$$.

 

[funky]

"We were not required to file a flight plan because we were going to be using visual flight rules (VFR) for our journey."

great lesson there pal. you teach your student that a flight from pa to nc doesn't need a flight plan filed? nice.

"In an effort to be extra careful, and wishing to avoid the restricted area of Camp David during our flight, we over compensated by taking a more than anticipated southerly route, which consequently caused us to infringe upon the Washington, D.C., restricted zones..."

extra careful? like filing a flight plan?

 

[smellthejeta]

Sure is nice though to have your voice on tape asking about TFR's and getting all the info, especially around the ADIZ. Also, FSS is the only way to file a flight plan for ADIZ penetration.

Who said he actually intended to file an ADIZ flight plan? Now the idea of going south around camp david and NOT filing one was pretty dumb, but oh well.

Any CFI giving instruction within the shadow of the ADIZ should cover ADIZ penetration and avoidance procedures, including GPS. Lancaster is less than 30 nm from the ADIZ boundary. Assuming this guy's BFR is current (or is that another busted FAR?), he's been with an instructor since the ADIZ was implemented.

Keyword being SHOULD. What instructors should teach or are supposed to teach, and what they actually do are two different things. There are still plenty of instructors who think GPS is just a toy that adds to the detioriation of navigational skills.

I'd say your instructor was negligent.

So says you. There are plenty of things that should be taught that are outside of the PTS but don't get taught because it "takes extra time" and "brings your bill to high."

Pre-ADIZ I found the controllers to be pretty cooperative with Class B clearances. You have to talk to them though. In fact, it was easier VFR than IFR.

Presuming you want to talk to them. Several people don't. There's still no EASY way to navigate under the class B VFR through the N/S corridor between IAD and DCA and the E/W corridor between ADW,DCA, and BWI.

LNS..KLBT ---> 356 nm
LNS.MRB.LDN..KLBT ---> 378 nm Totally clear of ADIZ and Class B (must make sure P40 hasn't been expanded) and you don't have to talk to ANYBODY.

When I said "through" I was referring to flying within the Class B (pre-ADIZ). There aren't any VOR's inside the Class B that are usable for flying the corridors if you want to avoid ATC.

Again, Lancaster is less than 30 nm from the ADIZ boundary. I'd say that qualifies.

I never said it didn't. I'm not exactly sticking up for the guy, because you have to be pretty stupid to be flying anywhere near DC and not be absolutely sure that you're avoiding the ADIZ or that you've complied with transit requirements through it. What I was pointing out was that some extra tools that experienced pilots use all of the time aren't required (and are therefore probably not) taught as fundamentals (GPS/FF).

 

[SigAV8R]

There is some airspace where ALL available tools should be used (and taught). I won't fault the guy for not using them if he were taught that they were "toys" or "frills" and REAL pilots don't use them.

How, in this day and age, can people still consider a GPS a "toy" or "frill" which is unnecessary? That's just plain stupid given the advancement and availability of GPS over the past 5 years. Second, if "REAL" pilots don't use them, that makes these guys "real" pilots and I'm glad I'm NOT a "REAL" pilot. At least us "fake" pilots all still have our licenses.

 

[smellthejeta]

How, in this day and age, can people still consider a GPS a "toy" or "frill" which is unnecessary? That's just plain stupid given the advancement and availability of GPS over the past 5 years. Second, if "REAL" pilots don't use them, that makes these guys "real" pilots and I'm glad I'm NOT a "REAL" pilot. At least us "fake" pilots all still have our licenses.

Don't ask me. You guys seem to think that I'm actually defending this old school mentality. I'm just explaining that an old school mentality still exists. I never said I agreed with it, because I don't. But, if this guy was a "victim" of the old school mentality, it ought to be a lesson that the advancements in technology are more than just rich people's toys.