• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Accelerated ratings, what do you think???

UnAnswerd

Activity Terminated
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Posts
607
Total Time
NA
At this point, it looks as though my progression from zero time to about 20 hours/first solo will have taken about 1 year. At this rate, I can expect to have my certificate in another 1.5 years if I'm lucky. The funny thing here, is that I'm always scheduled to fly twice a week. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel it really shouldn't be taking over 2 years to obtain a simple private pilot certificate, given my ability to fly twice a week. Besides bad weather, part of the problem seems to be insufficient time spent on each lesson. On average, my lessons usually consist of about .7 hours in the air. Of my 17 hours, only 3 single lessons have actually been 1 hour in length.

Right now, I really don't care. However, if I ever get the PPC, I'll probably want to work towards an instrument rating. However, the factors above are unacceptable. I've seen advertisements that can get you an instrument rating in 1 or 2 weeks if you can commit full-time. This seem like the way to do it.

What does everyone think of these accelerated programs???
 

2000flyer

EASY FLYER
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,586
Total Time
5700+
I guess I don't see the math. Even at 1.4 hours a week, that is less than 15 weeks to get to 20 hours. If weather is the reason for cancelation, man, you need to move somewhere MUCH nicer!

First thing I would do is sit down with your instructor and talk with him/her. There is no reason you can't do 1-1.5 hours per flight. Unless this instructor is trying to cram 6-8 students a day in, it sounds to me they're just plain lazy. Is this a professional instructor (someone doing it for a living) or Joe Schmoe who is doing it "for the fun of it" on the side from a full time job? Both can be great instructors, but the students priority is the most important aspect to flight training.

If a talk doesn't work to your satisfaction, check another instructor or another flight school. If the student is truly dedicated to learning to fly and has the time and funds to get the rating done, it shouldn't take more than 6 months at the most. The longer you take, the more money it's going to cost you.

As for advanced ratings, again...if your local school can't get the job done, look elsewhere.

2000Flyer
 

Snakum

How's your marmott?
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
2,090
Total Time
Little
It could be worse. I took my first hour of dual in July 1995, solo'd in August 1996, and finally finished my PPL in March 2001.

H@ll ... you're screaming thru it compared to me. :D

And of course ... there's my three starts on the IR, as well. :(


Minhberg the Old
(I'm pacing myself :D )
 

UnAnswerd

Activity Terminated
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Posts
607
Total Time
NA
2000flyer said:
Is this a professional instructor (someone doing it for a living) or Joe Schmoe who is doing it "for the fun of it" on the side from a full time job? Both can be great instructors, but the students priority is the most important aspect to flight training.

My instructor is an older man, who is retired. I guess he's instructing for something to do, extra money, or whatnot.

2000flyer said:
If a talk doesn't work to your satisfaction, check another instructor or another flight school. If the student is truly dedicated to learning to fly and has the time and funds to get the rating done, it shouldn't take more than 6 months at the most. The longer you take, the more money it's going to cost you.

That probably sums it up. However, the next closest airport is like 1 hour away, and I don't even know if they have a flight school there. Besides, I get along very well with my instructor and the people I've met at the school. The last thing I want to do is actually walk away, and look for other instruction. I just wish things weren't taking so long.
 

shamrock

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Posts
1,786
Total Time
1 year
Are you talking .7 total in the airplane, as in on the Hobbs? That's just not enough. Even with a short taxi and a nearby practice area that leaves you with what, 15 to 20 minutes of airwork?

Where I instructed we scheduled 2 hour blocks for lessons and easily did 1 to 1.5 on the Hobbs, depending on how much pre or post brief we needed. Your instructor is doing you a disservice if all he can manage regularly is .7 per lesson.
 

Huggyu2

Live to fly; fly to live
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Posts
1,187
Total Time
9000+
Irrespective of where you go, try to see if you can get 3-4 flights per week. Continuity is so important, and you need to push to try to fly more frequently.
 

Mickey

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Posts
210
Total Time
12000+
There is nothing wrong with flying twice a week. I agree with everyone else and think that most of your lessons should be from 1.0 to 1.5 in the aircraft. Currently you're wasting 25% of your time taxiing the airplane. This is why simulators are a nice addition to aircraft training. You do a lot of airwork without wasting time on cruising and taxiing. If you like your insructor that is great. Maybe you could take a proactive stance on your learning and give him a set of goals for each flight lesson. By looking at the PTS or a JEPP syllabus you could tell him what you want to practice from your last lesson and what you would like to learn new on this lesson. Try to do this in a tactful manner, without over stepping your position as student. Maybe this will make each lesson more productive. Hopefully he'll be receptive to your needs. Once you solo more you'll be able to progress quicker since you can control what you practice. Good luck and don't be afraid to use all of us on this board.


PS- My older brother started in the 70's, has over 80 hours and still doesn't have his PPL. It's his fault all the way.
 

Tarzan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Posts
2,073
Total Time
.
There is no reason you can't get everything done in less than a year. My school didn't have "Get all you ratings in 90 days" and I still managed to get everything done in less than a year and we had an extremely wet winter. There was also a few months that I didn't fly due to surguries. Actual time I was at the school, took about 9.5 months. But... I did it full time. It hurt like hell taking a HUGE paycut but the wife and I figured it out.

If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way. Too many students out there don't have the commitment to do this thing balls to the wall. It's not fun doing slow flight, stalls and a million trips around the patch. Thats where you find out how bad you want it.
 

ReverseSensing

On the BC
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Posts
1,452
Total Time
>2000
Okay, at the risk of starting a $hit$storm:

I agree with much of the advice given thus far.

It just doesn't have to take so long under any circumstances. You are the paying customer. Yes, an instructor owes you a professional responsibility to evaluate and control (to an extent) your progress, but students should be proactive and demand a timeline that suits their goals and their learning style. I disagree to some extent with Mickey though when he/she writes:

"Try to do this in a tactful manner, without over stepping your position as student. Maybe this will make each lesson more productive. Hopefully he'll be receptive to your needs."

This seems like a passive approach, and I never cared very much for students who were passive about their flight training. I always thought the most important thing I taught was a quality of PICness, which is the antithesis of being passive.

What is do-able? If made a full-time job, one month, December, in the Pacific NW from first lesson to Private checkride, with a 10-day no flying break due to weather. Obviously not the norm, just an example of what's possible with a proactive student and flexible flight instructor resources, though not necessarily just one instructor.

Honestly this isn't intended to be a lecture -- I hope it didn't come across as one. I just strongly believe that students are capable of using instructors in a way that gets the process done quicker and less expensively, and, oh by the way, can result in a better flying education, due to immersion, rather than dabbling.

Of course, I may be full of crap, in which case I'm sure someone will gleefully point it out.
 

cforst513

Giggity giggity goo!!!
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Posts
1,854
Total Time
2100
it's taken me less than 6 weeks, got a 95% on my written yesterday, and my checkride is tomorrow... but i have no job, no family to feed, nothing like that. go in debt out of your ears to finance your flying. it's more fun that way :)
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
cforst513 said:
it's taken me less than 6 weeks, got a 95% on my written yesterday, and my checkride is tomorrow... but i have no job, no family to feed, nothing like that. go in debt out of your ears to finance your flying. it's more fun that way :)
the more things change, the more they stay the same. :)
 

cforst513

Giggity giggity goo!!!
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Posts
1,854
Total Time
2100
shamrock said:
Are you talking .7 total in the airplane, as in on the Hobbs? That's just not enough. Even with a short taxi and a nearby practice area that leaves you with what, 15 to 20 minutes of airwork?

Where I instructed we scheduled 2 hour blocks for lessons and easily did 1 to 1.5 on the Hobbs, depending on how much pre or post brief we needed. Your instructor is doing you a disservice if all he can manage regularly is .7 per lesson.
i logged 3.0 hours on the hobbs yesterday just doing ALL my maneuvers for my pvt. checkride. you can only do so many turns around a point....

i think my average dual flight time is somewhere around 1.3-1.7 range, and we always reserved the aircraft for 2 hours. it's your money, man, make it worth it! make your instructor earn his pay.
 

NEFlyer

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Posts
8
Total Time
400
"Try to do this in a tactful manner, without over stepping your position as student. Maybe this will make each lesson more productive. Hopefully he'll be receptive to your needs."

You are the customer. If the instructor isn't meeting your needs let him know about it. If you can't come to an agreement you might have to head off to somewhere else. If you are willing to fly 2-3 times a week and the weather cooperates there is no reason a PPL should take more than 90 days.
 

Goose Egg

Big Jens
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Posts
1,719
Total Time
3k-ish
Good advice so far. I'd caution against the accelerated rating courses. While your current situation isn't producing the desired results, the accelerated course may cover material too quickly to be truly assimilated.

I don't think there's a need to have a long sit-down with your current instructor, at least not yet. I think you should simply ask if you can fly longer during your lessons. If he resists this, then you have the talk.

As one user pointed out, you do need to be assertive and exercise "PIC authority" over your training. It should be done professionally though.

-Goose
 

UnAnswerd

Activity Terminated
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Posts
607
Total Time
NA
Metro752 said:
check if you are logging TACH and not actual time!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is there a difference. As far as I know, what goes into the log-book is taken straight from the hobbs meter, no?
 

cforst513

Giggity giggity goo!!!
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Posts
1,854
Total Time
2100
tach moves slower than the hobbs does, meaning you're up there for longer than it shows. 1.0 on the hobbs might work out to be like 0.4 or 0.5 on tach.
 

Kream926

pimpin' aint easy
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Posts
1,196
Total Time
1.21
an hour on the hobbs will be a bit more than .4, more like .8, depending on how hard u run the engine
 
Top