Accelerated Flight Crew Crash in AZ

[FlyinBrian]

I live under the turn from Base to Final on runway 17, and I haven't seen the apaches in awhile. I haven't really been looking for them though. I'll keep an eye out, it would be interesting to know. It would be a good idea to keep them on the ground. When the lawyers do their digging, they will look a whole lot better if they grounded everything at least temporarily and double/triple checked everything. If they keep flying and have another accident, the lawyers will destroy them for sure.

 

[8sm]

The Walkup family has a long history in aviation. Johns father has a bronze statue of his likeness adorning Wiley field in OK, for his achievements and accomplishments in aviation. That type of commitment is well imbedded in John Walkup.

John & Diana Walkup operate Chander Air Service. I'll agree with the recent poster, John's operation is top notch. Their longevity on field, since 1976, speaks for itself.
As far as the incident with the cowling. If it was an Archer, as FlyinBrian mentions, there is an inspection door located on the top of the cowling for the purpose of the pre-flight. Unlike the Warrior, the Archer cowling does not have a hindged cowling for inspection. It would take two people to remove the cowling correctly for inspection, revealing the entire engine compartment, which is not nessecary for pre-flight per POH. The mechanic would have questioned that procedure for a pre-flight on an Archer. I've had some problems with the Warriors cowling latches and they were look into and corrected promptly. The training aircraft are well used and although not the best looking, they are safe and well maintained. There has been and never will be any short cuts taken at CAS. I would highly recommend CAS for any of their services.

Additionally, I have not had the pleasure to use Sunbirds services, although I have shared the field and airspace with their instructors and students. My assessment of their pilots would be one of professional aviators with safety being their upmost concerns. Their pilots do a great job in Chandlers Class D airspace as well as the surrounding Class B.

As far as the OLS incident, regardless of who maybe at fault, lives were lost, and that should not have happened. Justice will prevail, hopefully sooner than later, for those still in harms way.

Regards........8sm

 

[Goffer]

As if anyone cared...

I live under the turn from Base to Final on runway 17, and I haven't seen the apaches in awhile.

Hmmm... I too live under the base to final turn for 17. Nice to meet you neighbor.

 

[bigD]

Hmmm... I too live under the base to final turn for 17. Nice to meet you neighbor.

Heh heh - with some of the pilots that fly around here, living under base to final could be anywhere!

 

[Goffer]

Heh heh - with some of the pilots that fly around here, living under base to final could be anywhere!

Yes, but if it's base to final under runway 17 at Stellar Airpark in Chandler, AZ, as noted above, kinda narrows the scope.

 

[bigD]

Yes, but if it's base to final under runway 17 at Stellar Airpark in Chandler, AZ, as noted above, kinda narrows the scope.

LOL - for the sake of my joke, perhaps I should have been more clear: If the pilots that frequent Stellar Airpark are anything like the pilots around here, base to final under runway 17 could still cover a rather large area!

 

[clrwman]

Safety Pilot

Will these type of schools that use safety pilots survive? Don't the airlines frown on safety pilot time when brought up in an interview or do they allow you so much time?

 

[weekendwarrior]

I was working on my tailwheel checkout and did some touch and goes at Stellar recently. We landed, did a taxi back and were on the CTAF the whole time. We were in position rolling when a 182 starts crossing the runway. Never heard a word from him on the radio. Had to stop on the runway, get on him for being an idiot, then did a short field take off. Goes to show that there could very well be a few pilots there (not all of course) that just don't have all their marbles.

 

[Ranger/Pilot]

Crash

Everyone,

All of you continue to discuss a traggic event that took the lives of 3 Friends & Fellow pilots. You do this by throwing blame at ACFT without any proof or facts to substaniate your claims.
Let's remember that all Flight Instrucors are required to pass the same FAA Practical Test and regardless of how many hours a Flight Instructor/Pilot has, We have all been there ourselves (that's how we gain more experience- by flying).
Let's also remember that any pilot regardless of hours or experience is capable of making bad decisions, however we all try to make the best one's we can and hope they are right.
So let us HONOR our fellow pilots by remaining Professionals and waiting for the NTSB & FAA to complete their investigations and put out a report of their findings.

Ranger/Pilot

 

[azpilot]

Ranger/Pilot

While what you say is a nice thought sadly at times it is far from the truth. Many of those who are making the posts are just trying to warn people of what they think is an unsafe outfit. An instructor with little experience or years of experience can't do a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing from the back seat!

While all licensed pilots may have the same piece of paper that does not mean they have the same skill level. That may be a result of just being a poor pilot or it may result from having poor instruction, flying poor equiptment and not knowing any better. Look at Hanni Hanjour one of the terrorists. He was a licensed pilot. What DE in his right mind would pass someone who did not speak and understand the English language. You also hear about people who bounce from instructor to instructor/school to school trying to find someone to sign them off for something.

All I am trying to say is that it is easy to slip through the cracks. In experience on the part of all in the plane or possibly just one may have cost them their lives. I know 2 of the 3 did not have much experience. Your license is a license to learn. Just because we have them doesn't mean we know it all. If there were 3 inexperienced people in the plane that is a dangerous situation when an emergency arises.

I will still stand on what I have said that AFCT is a marginal outfit at best. Many have used them and walked away without incident. That does not mean they have optimal equipment or optimal maintenance practices.

 

[azpilot]

I was working on my tailwheel checkout and did some touch and goes at Stellar recently. We landed, did a taxi back and were on the CTAF the whole time. We were in position rolling when a 182 starts crossing the runway. Never heard a word from him on the radio. Had to stop on the runway, get on him for being an idiot, then did a short field take off. Goes to show that there could very well be a few pilots there (not all of course) that just don't have all their marbles.

Well let's see... I have had one of the mechanics from AFCT drive his little red car across the runway twice when I was taking off. One time I aborted take-off and the other time I flew over him by about 50ft or less. I had some guy flying around at night with no radio calls come inside of me on the downwind at the same altitude and less than 1/4 mile away from me. I yelled at him and he wandered around in the sky for a while, made unintelligible comments on the radio and then finally made a bad landing and taxied to his house. I had another near miss years ago from another resident who didn't use his radio.

This is the joy of flying at an uncontrolled field. You need to pay attention to what others are doing and assume the worst. Of course you should do this at controlled fields as well. Was the 182 Blue and White by any chance? That is a club plane that is sometimes flown by folks who don't fly very often.

- AZPilot

 

[FlyinBrian]

Ranger/Pilot,

Do not confuse our irritation with AFCT with disrespect for the lives of some fellow pilots. Several of us have posted opinions on the unsafe and unprofessional practices of AFCT long before this crash. This crash did arouse some suspicions which launced us into an old debate. I think you will find that in general, those of us who criticise AFCT kept the debate relatively substantive. RJpilot resorted to diversions, flames, and claimed to have knowlege about the crash but refused to share it.

I always hate to see fellow pilots lose thier lives. I think these pilots made some bad decisions, and it is very likely that those decisions ultimately cost them their lives. I will wait for the NTSB report, but it won't change my opinion of AFCT either way.

 

[Goffer]

I had some guy flying around at night with no radio calls come inside of me on the downwind at the same altitude and less than 1/4 mile away from me. I yelled at him and he wandered around in the sky for a while, made unintelligible comments on the radio and then finally made a bad landing and taxied to his house.
- AZPilot

The freaks come out at night. I've heard someof the strangest calls late at night. I guess these guys feel safer at the late hours of the night, as if there are less people to hit or tick off. I also have noticed that there are a lot more people with accents so thick that make them almost not understandable late at night.

 

[azpilot]

By the way the Apaches are again flying over my house on base to 17. If it don't sound right DON'T FLY IT!

- AZPilot

 

[RJPilot]

Ranger/Pilot,

I think you will find that in general, those of us who criticise AFCT kept the debate relatively substantive. RJpilot resorted to diversions, flames, and claimed to have knowlege about the crash but refused to share it.

Diversions-You posted false information a few months back with out facts and you were wrong. Flames-If the truth is a flame then yes I flamed you. Knowledge-any knowledge provided to you would be twisted in some form other than the truth.

FlyinBrian

I've noticed the folks who typically defend Stew's Acclerated pilot-whore training bordello are noticably absent from this conversation. I guess it's hard to defend the shady operation when it kills three people. I don't mean to use three deaths to stir up an old pot, but it makes me angry. I hope that some folks understand things a little better now.

Now thats a post from a pro pilot and again without facts. Understand what Brian? Like your original posts about AFCT that again was clearly false information.

BTW- Here is a person not absent from this coversation

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6202

 

[FlyinBrian]

RJpilot, You crack me up.

My tone was harsh because I was upset about the situation. Please tell me where I made a false statement. I may have said some things that weren't very nice, and perhaps even a bit unprofessional. But anyone can take a look at the rest of this thread and understand who the professionals are and aren't.

When I refer to flames, I don't mean the truth, I mean statements like:

and I know you. Any questions? YES I KNOW YOU! Good luck with Eagle!

This is an obvious attempt to "rub-in" The fact that I'm a furloughed airline pilot, and contributed absolutely nothing to this ongoing debate. My few off-color comments were not directed personally at anyone on this board, and were meant to give emphasis to my displeasure. Compare that to the above comment
which anyone can recognize as taking pleasure in a fellow pilot's furlough and tell me who the professional is.

I have been nothing but honest on this board. I may have been harshly critical, but I never said anything that I knew to be untrue, nor did I ever demonsrate a reckless disregard for the truth. If you can show me a single outright falsehood that I have posted to this board, I would be surprised.

So here it is again RJ... If you have something to defend the concerns that we've raised and asked you to address several times, please do. I won't "twist" what you say. I don't need to damage your credibility any worse than you already have. I know that the facts of this case will eventually come out. I hope that when we get the NTSB report that my analysis is way off base, and this turns out to be a freak accident. But if AFCT is still throwing instructors in the back seat, it would make me sick to my stomach.

 

[bigD]

I was looking at AFCT's web site and noticed that part of the 19K package was being an instructor for 8 months or so after you get your MEI. Is this a paid position? Someone alluded to "5 bucks per hour" many posts back, but I wasn't sure if he was being serious or not...

 

[FlyinBrian]

The poster who said $5/hr. was being totally serious. Last I knew, that was their wage. It was a $5/hr increase from the previous wage.

 

[bigD]

Wow - 5 bucks huh? That's pretty hard core. Do they sign a contract to instruct or something? I'd think that many would jump ship and instruct somewhere else for triple or quadruple the money.

 

[AZaviator]

$5/hr

I don't believe a contract is required to instruct at AFCT. The low pay for the CFIs is how they can rent out Apaches at $110/hr including the CFI. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't another flight school that pays its instructors this low, nor should there be. Myself, along with most other CFIs on this message board probably earn more flying 1.5 hours with a student, than a CFI at AFCT earns in one day. I'm not trying to brag or anything like that, just merely pointing out some facts.

Go ahead and flame away if you need to. I could care less.
The flames on this post are actually quite entertaining.