Accelerated Flight Crew Crash in AZ

[ILS JNKY]

junk

Don't fly junk any more, use to and be stressed out about it old beat up cessnas 172p 1972 era, or 172N 1977 era just to old most of them on the 3rd rebild or so from what i was told.

man it was bad even when the instructor said they were junk.

So , not wanting to sell my lief short i found another place to train, with new planes.

I will pay a little more to fly new , better that than junk .

Just read the NTSB reports get them every month and it is just over whelming to see all miss haps in the publication.

Heart felt reguards to the familys of the pilots

 

[JediNein]

Instructors teaching landings

Howdy!

Sorry about that blanket comment. When I see several landing accidents in a given block of time (2001 in this case) at a particular flight school, it usually indicates an instructor problem. Either someone is letting students and renters get by with poor procedures, or the management is not requiring the instructors to insist on correct landing procedures. Even the FAA handbook had the landing illustration incorrect for several years, now corrected in the latest release.

The NTSB records for desert airports in 2001 are pretty dismal. Winds, complacency, and simply poor pilot technique caused several airports to get new runway lights and signs.

The school I did my initial training at was no better. I went through 7 instructors to find one that could figure out why I couldn't figure out how to land. I got an introduction to the trim wheel and was able to solo a few hours later. The school one of my students learned at didn't do him any favors either. On landing touchdown he drops the yoke to turn off the transponder and other things, then wondered why the aircraft shakes violently on rollout.

Landing accidents are unfortunately not unique to any one flight school. I intended my comments to state Sunbird does not stand out as having several landing accidents and incidents in a given time period. I wanted to know if RJPilot had a particular "stand out" accident in mind, which it appears he does not.

For Sunbird in particular, I sent a good friend there to learn how to land from a certain instructor. The instructor was able to determine her landing problem and a few others, walk her through correcting them, and now she is a private pilot.

I am surprised and dismayed by the crash of one of Accelerated planes and wait rather impatiently to find out the full story.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[FlyinBrian]

Jedi,

Just curious who the Sunbird instructor you sent your student to was. PM me if you don't mind sharing.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I know this is getting off post of the orginal thread, but I wanted to chime in here about Sundbird. First of all, I have flown with Brian (if it's the Brian I am thinking of) in my C-140. He definately knows how to land a plane, even if it is a fast wheel landing in a tail dragger from the right seat with a crosswind in 100 degree temps. If it's not the same Brian, then oh well.

Nevertheless, I am working on my Inst rating at Sunbird. I have flown with 2 of the best instructors I have ever had. And I have had quite a few. Probably 5 different instructors for my private, and a couple with my Instrument. (Double Eagle Aviation, but that's a whole new nightmare).

Anyway, I find that the professionalism, skill, and maintenance of Sunbird's policies are first rate. Yes, they had a couple of accidents, but that only made them make their CFI restrictions higher. Guess what that does? Provides you with more experienced CFI's. Also, they don't rent airplanes out to people anymore, so I imagine the accidents will not be as much of an issue anymore. So to put the Sunbird issue to rest (even though it is off this topic) they are an excellent group of folks. They have well maintained airplanes (C-172 is all I am flying). I don't feel that my flying there is a safety concern whatsoever.

 

[Beechnut]

Sunbird!

I really liked it when I rented a Warrior there several (five or so) years ago.

I couldn't get the right rear latch off the front cowl. The mechanic came out and wanted to know why I felt like I needed to be in there in the first place!!! By this time, I had the clasp partially un-done and the mechanic took his bright orange dead-blow hammer and pounded it back shut!
Me, being the new, nieve Private Pilot, took the aircraft anyway. My fault for taking the airplane, their fault for offering to rent the P.O.S.

S.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Sunbird has not had a warrior within the past five years. I don't think they ever had one. They fly mostly Cessnas. Maybe you're thinking of an Archer? In which case the mechanic may have been rude, but those latches typically aren't used for a preflight inspection like they are on a warrior. There is an access door for that on the one piece upper cowl.

I think you might have Sunbird mixed up with someone else.

 

[Goffer]

Beechnut,
I think you have Sunbird confused with Chandler Air Service. I don't know Sunbird to have any Warriors. Plus I thought I remembered you renting from Chandler Air Service when you lived in PHX.

 

[Goffer]

I also wasn't impressed with Sunbird's 172's. I have a buddy that got his Private at the school. His flying is substandard at best in many area's. I blame the Instructor(s) with some of the blame on the friend for his skills. He had several instructors while he was completing his private training. There is nothing good about a school that has to pass a student around 5 to 6 times from instructor to instructor just for private training.
Back to the 172's He had told me that on a couple of flights in leu of a knob on the radio he had to use some pliers, unacceptable. I don't doubt his story I've flown in some of those P.O.S's, and I wouldn't have been surprised is the radio stack had fallen out during the flight.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Again, that is not Sunbird anymore. They used to be known as "rent a wreck" airplanes, but not anymore. I have flown 3 of their 172's and everything works perfectly. The engines run great, no radio problems, gyros work. One of them even has new paint and interior. And they don't shuffle around students, either. They were very sure that I had a dedicated instructor. The only reason why I have 2, is that one is on vacation and I needed a substitute. Nevertheless, both instructors are first rate instructors.

I think the Sunbird of the past has got a bad rap, but as far as I can see over the last few weeks, it's changed quite a bit.

 

[Beechnut]

Oh Crap was it Chandler Air Service? I rented the Warrior (I'm sure it was a Warrior) in 1994. I guess I had the names mixed up. Oh well...


S.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Chandler Air Service does operate a fleet of seven warriors... Maybe it was them.

 

[AZaviator]

Back to the 172's He had told me that on a couple of flights in leu of a knob on the radio he had to use some pliers, unacceptable. I don't doubt his story I've flown in some of those P.O.S's, and I wouldn't have been surprised is the radio stack had fallen out during the flight

Why would your friend (or anyone for that matter) accept an airplane in which you would have to use pliers to turn the radio knobs? Sunbird usually had a spare 172 to use if something was wring with the one you had.

Also, I seriously doubt a radio stack would fall out during flight in any of Sunbird's airplanes, or any airplane for that matter. Nice try though.

 

[Goffer]

Why would your friend (or anyone for that matter) accept an airplane in which you would have to use pliers to turn the radio knobs? Sunbird usually had a spare 172 to use if something was wring with the one you had.

Also, I seriously doubt a radio stack would fall out during flight in any of Sunbird's airplanes, or any airplane for that matter. Nice try though.

You tell me why he flew "w/ instructor" at Sunbird in a plane of that condition (Pliers for knob).

As far as your smart reply with the radio stack thing. I've flown in some of those planes where the dash is separating from the panel, and gave the appearance that the panel was in poor condition. I'm sorry you couldn't recognize slight exaggeration/sarcasm in my last post.

 

[Goffer]

Anywho... what happened to posts about new information with the Apache crash near OLS.

 

[PHXAviator]

Chandler Air Service? I highly doubt it!

John Walkup (owner of Chandler Air Service and highly respected D.E.) would never run a shoddy operation like has been described here. Top notch place.

PHXAviator

 

[Goffer]

I've flown several A/C out of Chandler Air Service, and have been pleased with the condition of the A/C every time. I agree Chandler Air Service runs clean and efficient business.

 

[AZaviator]

Anywho... what happened to posts about new information with the Apache crash near OLS.

I don't think anyone has any new accurate info on the Apache crash. This thread now seems to be a flame war about anything and everything other than the reason for the original post.

zzzz...zzzz....zzzz.....not interesting anymore.

 

[AV1ATRX]

This is kind of an afterthought, and maybe nobody will even read it, but I had a radio stack fall out one time. On rotation in a light twin. I pushed it back in and beat on it until it worked again, which was a good thing since I was headed into Class B, at night, almost IMC (hazy, maybe 1 mile vis under a low layer). I am probably the most anal preflighter any of you will ever meet, and I didn't try to pull out the radio stack to see if it was stuck in there good! So, my point after all that, is that a stack can fall out, and it can happen at a very bad time...

Don't flame me, and I know this doesn't have anything to do with the original post, but I wanted to share that little tidbit.

Rachel

BTW, I am deeply saddened by the crash and the deaths of three people.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I think it's clear that RJpilot is not going to provide us with the information that he may or may not have... I'm sure it will all be in the NTSB report.

 

[azpilot]

Although I am not 100% positive I believe non of the Apaches have flown since the accident. The one Cherokee they own has been in use. So the school may not be shut down but it seems they are trying to be quiet with the Apaches for a while.

Any comments RJPilot?

-AZPilot