FlyinBrian
Office Slut
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- Nov 29, 2001
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Accelerated Flight Crew Crash in AZ
- Thread starter azpilot
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- Watchers 19
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RJPilot said:
You may still be around but there is no way you can say that the planes at Stellar are well maintained.
How long ago did you fly there? Was it when the maintenance shop was the old beat up Volvo station wagon?
I know quite a few people who have flown there to build time. They have also told me most of the instructors didn't know what the hell they were doing because of their low time and experience as an instructor.
Some of us don't rely on the newspaper as you suggest. I included the article in my original post because it does have merit. It was recommended that they not fly the airplane. I believe someone at Stellar told them to go ahead and fly the plane back. That was a bad decision. Someone should have flown another plane down there with a mechanic to see what was wrong with the airplane. Go ahead and defend Stew. I would like to hear your argument. It is sad that people have to risk their lives in order to have affordble multi-engine time. There is no excuse for having the instructors flying from the back. This may be "paper" legal but it is not safe. Why doesn't Stew carry any insurance on the planes? Why are half of them down for maintenance all the time and I am not talking about 50/100 hour inspections. I know they occur often because the planes are flown so much. Like drinking and driving you may survive driving home drunk from the bar but that doesn't mean it was a safe or smart practice.
My opinion is that those flying the plane were more concerned with how to get back from Nogales if they left the plane on the ground vs. just getting in the plane and flying home. Yes this is my opinion only and we won't know how the NTSB calls it for a long time to come.
It would be nice if we could raise the bar when it comes to training vs. always lowering it.
- AZPilot
azpilot
You may still be around but there is no way you can say that the planes at Stellar are well maintained.
RJPilot
The FAA gave the school a clean bill of heath AND THE SCHOOL STILL FLY'S TODAY. Since "FlyinBrian" wishes to discuss issues of safety I felt the need to post on the the flight school where he taught. Here is the NTSTB REPORT ON SUNBIRD:
http://204.29.171.80/framer/navigat...name=NTSB&uid=1950422&url=http://www.ntsb.gov
Maybe you could explain this Brian. I landed just as your school flipped a c-172. Yes, I was part of the NTSB and I know you. Any questions? YES I KNOW YOU! Good luck with Eagle!
You may still be around but there is no way you can say that the planes at Stellar are well maintained.
RJPilot
The FAA gave the school a clean bill of heath AND THE SCHOOL STILL FLY'S TODAY. Since "FlyinBrian" wishes to discuss issues of safety I felt the need to post on the the flight school where he taught. Here is the NTSTB REPORT ON SUNBIRD:
http://204.29.171.80/framer/navigat...name=NTSB&uid=1950422&url=http://www.ntsb.gov
Maybe you could explain this Brian. I landed just as your school flipped a c-172. Yes, I was part of the NTSB and I know you. Any questions? YES I KNOW YOU! Good luck with Eagle!
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RJPilot said:
Your argument is pretty weak. You make it sound like the FAA has an abundance of inspectors which come around on a weekly basis to check things out. You have a right to your opinion though. I do think you are in the minority and we will see what happens in the long run.
I believe all but possibly one accident at Sunbird were because of pilot error and not a mechnical problem. At least in the past year or so. There is no comparison with a student pilot running off the runway in a perfectly good airplane to those who are killed due to an engine failure.
Why don't you defend your position with the "facts" you claim to have? I don't work for Sunbird or any other school in the valley. So my opinion is not biased based on my employer. It is based on seeing broken airplanes on the ramp all the time and the pathetic sounds they make during runup. The majority of the people at Stellar have said it was only a matter of time before something bad happened. I think the majority was right.
Again I convey my condolences to the families. The father of the instructor on board said his daughter was well on her way with her flying career. I wish she could have afforded a safer environment. As I have stated in previous posts I have personal friends who have flown Stew's planes full well knowing they were pieces of junk. I am glad they were able to survive. I also know their piloting skills are above many of the students there and would most likely survive and engine failure. Stew cut corners while he was a DE and got caught and he has done the same with his school.
- AZPilot
PS: Your link to the NTSB reports didn't work. You might want to past the actual accident number.
S'cuse me guys.
RJPilot, that link led to the NTSB's main page. I did a search on Sunbird. The oldest accident I found was in 2001. They were the usual assortment of student pilots and other pilots not knowing how to land an airplane properly in gusty winds. That school wasn't the only one where instructors didn't know how to teach landings. Is there a particular NTSB Identification Number that you could post?
Same types of problems another flight school in North Las Vegas had until they pushed yet another 100% turnover in their flight instructors. That same flight school didn't make the NTSB records when a student pilot ran out of gas and did a landing on highway 95. There's only a slight mention of an on-airport landing from an engine failure after the plane's engine quit AGAIN a few weeks later and caused substantial damage. That school just repainted the airplane and is covering the crash damage by repainting their entire fleet. As they crash, they get some repairs, and get repainted. Of course the one with the leaking fuel tanks ruined the orginal paint job, so a new job hid that problem too, for another few months. Don't worry, the airplanes show no damage history, just the 100 hour inspection and paint job.
I saw another flight school that thought maintenance was too expensive. Fortunately, the former owner came back and shook things up. That school, after two years of struggling, and a large infusion of cash, prospers today.
Another flight school with pristine airplanes and a large customer base, plus dedicated flight instructors and an excellent location: Two years later they closed their doors during the summer rush when EVERYONE wanted to learn how to fly. They were a good school too until the new owner ran it into the ground with full afterburner.
Now I have several clients that bring their own airplanes. I can refuse to ride in them if they are not airworthy. I must! It's my certificates and life at risk.
Safety? It's up to the individual pilot to choose rental locations that have well-maintained, clean, airplanes. Dirt is not an airworthiness item, however, it does tell a story about how much an owner CARES about the airplane.
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
RJPilot, that link led to the NTSB's main page. I did a search on Sunbird. The oldest accident I found was in 2001. They were the usual assortment of student pilots and other pilots not knowing how to land an airplane properly in gusty winds. That school wasn't the only one where instructors didn't know how to teach landings. Is there a particular NTSB Identification Number that you could post?
Same types of problems another flight school in North Las Vegas had until they pushed yet another 100% turnover in their flight instructors. That same flight school didn't make the NTSB records when a student pilot ran out of gas and did a landing on highway 95. There's only a slight mention of an on-airport landing from an engine failure after the plane's engine quit AGAIN a few weeks later and caused substantial damage. That school just repainted the airplane and is covering the crash damage by repainting their entire fleet. As they crash, they get some repairs, and get repainted. Of course the one with the leaking fuel tanks ruined the orginal paint job, so a new job hid that problem too, for another few months. Don't worry, the airplanes show no damage history, just the 100 hour inspection and paint job.
I saw another flight school that thought maintenance was too expensive. Fortunately, the former owner came back and shook things up. That school, after two years of struggling, and a large infusion of cash, prospers today.
Another flight school with pristine airplanes and a large customer base, plus dedicated flight instructors and an excellent location: Two years later they closed their doors during the summer rush when EVERYONE wanted to learn how to fly. They were a good school too until the new owner ran it into the ground with full afterburner.
Now I have several clients that bring their own airplanes. I can refuse to ride in them if they are not airworthy. I must! It's my certificates and life at risk.
Safety? It's up to the individual pilot to choose rental locations that have well-maintained, clean, airplanes. Dirt is not an airworthiness item, however, it does tell a story about how much an owner CARES about the airplane.
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
RJPilot
The FAA gave the school a clean bill of heath AND THE SCHOOL STILL FLY'S TODAY. Since "FlyinBrian" wishes to discuss issues of safety I felt the need to post on the flight school where he taught. HERE IS THE NTSB REPORT ON SUNBIRD WHERE “FLYINBRIAN” TAUGHT:
JUST TYPE IN SUNBIRD! WHAT A SICK PERSON TO POST TO THIS THREAD BEFORE THE NTSB INVESTIGATION.
Maybe you could explain this Brian. I landed just as your school flipped a C-172. Yes, I was part of the NTSB and I know you. Any questions? Good luck with Eagle. Just check the NTSB REPORT ON SUNBIRD AVIATION. THE GOOD OLD FLYINBRIAN.
The FAA gave the school a clean bill of heath AND THE SCHOOL STILL FLY'S TODAY. Since "FlyinBrian" wishes to discuss issues of safety I felt the need to post on the flight school where he taught. HERE IS THE NTSB REPORT ON SUNBIRD WHERE “FLYINBRIAN” TAUGHT:
JUST TYPE IN SUNBIRD! WHAT A SICK PERSON TO POST TO THIS THREAD BEFORE THE NTSB INVESTIGATION.
Maybe you could explain this Brian. I landed just as your school flipped a C-172. Yes, I was part of the NTSB and I know you. Any questions? Good luck with Eagle. Just check the NTSB REPORT ON SUNBIRD AVIATION. THE GOOD OLD FLYINBRIAN.
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NO, NOT THE FACTS! AND YES SUNBIRD HAS HAD MANY ACCIDENTS! JUST CHECK THE NTSB REPORTS. AFCT SCHOOL HAD A PLANE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT WAS FUELING FOR DEPARTURE. THIS WAS ADM PROBLEM. TIFFEN FLEW THE PLANE FOR APPROX AN HOUR. THIS WAS NOT A PLANE THE DE REFUSED TO FLY! TIFFEN FLEW THE PLANE FOR APPROX 1 HR FOR THE CHECK RIDE. BTW, I RECIEVED MY RATINGS FROM TIFFIN AND YES A GOOD DE.
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RJPilot: Thank you for your barley literate responses to Brian's queries. I enjoyed how your credibility slipped with each post, it was quite entertaining.
I fail to see how a personal attack directed towards Brian or the school he taught at defends Stew's uninsured fleet of fifty year old unairworthy airplanes. You've provided no information to refute Brian's view of Accelerated. Also, I think that bringing up Sunbird's accident record actually hurts your safety argument. Sunbird has had only two fatalities in its almost ten years of operations, and that accident was renters doing something stupid and hitting power lines with a perfectly good airplane. Moreover, Sunbird also has had zero pilot error accidents with an instructor on board as far back as I can determine. Now, if you're really “with” the NTSB as you claim you could bring up examples of accidents at Sunbird due to mechanical failure. However, since the best you have to offer is a story about how some student pilot screwed up I doubt you're really with the NTSB.
RJPilot, since you know the facts of what happened down at Nogales last weekend, why don't you share them with us? You stated in your first post in this thread you said “ I know the full story and will defend this school based on the knowledge I have about this crash.” If you really do have some thing to say to defend Accelerated, why do you have to resort to flaming Brian?
There's a big difference between an student pilot losing directional control and bending a Cessna compared to three people dead because of possible poor maintenance and judgment. People don't usually die during day VFR without something major going wrong. If Stew runs his flight school like he ran his DE gig then I wouldn't want to get within fifty feet of any of his airplanes.
I fail to see how a personal attack directed towards Brian or the school he taught at defends Stew's uninsured fleet of fifty year old unairworthy airplanes. You've provided no information to refute Brian's view of Accelerated. Also, I think that bringing up Sunbird's accident record actually hurts your safety argument. Sunbird has had only two fatalities in its almost ten years of operations, and that accident was renters doing something stupid and hitting power lines with a perfectly good airplane. Moreover, Sunbird also has had zero pilot error accidents with an instructor on board as far back as I can determine. Now, if you're really “with” the NTSB as you claim you could bring up examples of accidents at Sunbird due to mechanical failure. However, since the best you have to offer is a story about how some student pilot screwed up I doubt you're really with the NTSB.
RJPilot, since you know the facts of what happened down at Nogales last weekend, why don't you share them with us? You stated in your first post in this thread you said “ I know the full story and will defend this school based on the knowledge I have about this crash.” If you really do have some thing to say to defend Accelerated, why do you have to resort to flaming Brian?
There's a big difference between an student pilot losing directional control and bending a Cessna compared to three people dead because of possible poor maintenance and judgment. People don't usually die during day VFR without something major going wrong. If Stew runs his flight school like he ran his DE gig then I wouldn't want to get within fifty feet of any of his airplanes.
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