ACA's reasons for cutting UAL...

[fracflyer]

Well...not really. Honorable people do business in an honorable way and can be counted on for honesty and integrity. That cutthroat business mentality is what's screwing the stock market because no one trusts corporations. UAL is bankrupt the stock is worthless and they should be embarrased as should you for somehow thinking UAL's tactics are what's business is all about.

Are you kidding me? United didn't offer what ACA wanted, so they're trying to screw you? Why didn't ACA screw UAL because they didn't offer what UAL wanted? ACA has the right to walk away and they made that choice. This "oh pitty us, because UAL screwed us" is pretty sad. Life sucks.

 

[House_X]

I'm glad people are underestimating ACA...because when you hear our new call sign on center, and see RJ's and 757's on YOUR ramp, your going to hate us even more.

ACA is not a $hitty commuter dreaming of buying jets. We employ 5000 people and have 1600 pilots, 100+ jets so on and so forth. We are a force to be recon with. We are the largest UAX carrier and we were forced to sign a horrible contract....that's why we are going it alone.

Overall, most pilots from other carriers have been very supportive. Our success will benefit other regional carriers and may give them the courage to forge out on their own as well.

As far as competition is concerned...the last time I checked SWA Airtran and jetBlue didn't fly into places like CRW, ROA, CHO etc...
We will offer low cost fares to small cities and connect them with larger aircraft at Dulles...Skeen (CEO) knows what he's doing.

As far as competition is concerned. The other low cost carriers are not a factor. jetBlue's Emb-190 hasn't even flown yet. SWA can't put 737's on our RJ connecting routes and Airtran has Delta and Song to worry about. Bleeding UAL has Frontier, SWA and ATA hunting it down.

The more doomsayers that lurk, the more ACA will thrive...

 

[climbhappy]

quote....you can bet that every carrier on the east coast will smell blood and dump S$%$loads of money into the market to prevent another LCC from entering.

its service and not just price that wins CUSTOMERS.....ironically a fare war will simply weaken the ones who underperform

the real loser in all this will be Us air, who continues to fall short of revenue expectations. this includes Q3.


To ACA , i hope you guys consider RDU because Midway made it work when the economy was bustling. all indices point to a recovery....foreign markets are all increasing, a keymeasure of proserity to come....

 

[Herman Bloom]

House

Keep telling yourself that bro. Just be cautious...you may be eating those words very soon when our management approaches us with rediculous concessions (I don't think most ACAers realize just how deep they're gonna try to go...get ready). I hope this works for obvious reasons, but try to prepare yourself for what MIGHT happen. It's hard enough to start an airline from scratch, and while in some ways having already been in operation will be an advantage, starting an airline with 87 to 100 jets is not without serious risks. Don't let your excitement blind you from the facts...that is a dangerous attitude, especially during contract negotiations. That attitude is why I believe ACA will set a new standard in SUB-standard narrowbody pay. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Carl_Everett]

I think the LCC idea ACA has is very interesting. I hope it does work, but I think it will be hard to compete initially with the likes of Southwest (in BWI--your closest LCC competition). The one thing Southwest has that you do not is extra seats. Those seats can spread the costs around and help pay the bills. If they charge $59 to fly to Manchester, NH from BWI, you will probably have to match it from IAD to stay competitive. Their 737-300 has probably 130 seats, and your RJ has 50. It will be hard, not impossible, for you to make money with those fares. I know you will be getting larger planes, and I can only hope you can get them quick and train pilots fast, but from what I heard about the Do-328 Jet training and the quagmire that resulted--it might take awhile to train the needed pilots. I hope you succeed.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Good points about Manchester, but I think the idea is to serve cities where the market will only support 1-2 flights a day on 737's while it could support 8 flights a day on an RJ. I don't know the exact numbers, however if we use a simple number like 30 pax to break even on a 500NM flight in an RJ, then this model could work. 30 PAX x 8 flights = 240 PAX to break even. That would be 2 737 flights per day. The frequency will be the selling point especially to business folk.

As for the 328 Training...I am not here to make excuses for that fiasco. The company stumbled mightily on that one. However there were other forces that prevented that operation to get up and runnng quickly. Namely the FAA. It took them forever to certify Check-Airmen. That meant FAA had to do many of the type rides, on a schedule that fit the FAA, not a new airline. Much of the training backups were because the FAA only did check rides on an average of 1 week out of the month.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

And a lot of that training fiasco was caused by ACA's $8/hour schedulers who couldn't put two students and an instructor together in AMS (after buying R/T tickets) or DFW at the same time. $500,000 down the toilet in no-showed sims.
That being said, with the cost-savings mentality this company has had over the past 2 years -- I don't that will repeat itself.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Are you kidding me? United didn't offer what ACA wanted, so they're trying to screw you? Why didn't ACA screw UAL because they didn't offer what UAL wanted? ACA has the right to walk away and they made that choice. This "oh pitty us, because UAL screwed us" is pretty sad. Life sucks.

A couple points...ACA and UAL already had an agreement that was making money for both parties. UAL used the bankruptcy laws to try to renig on that agreement. ACA did not agree to new terms with UAL and is willing to honor the existing contract unless UAL wants out. As for my posts...I don't think you'll see any "Oh pity us" or "UAL screwed us" talk from me. I just don't respect the way UAL does business and, in my opinion, can't be trusted to honor their agreements. Sometimes you have to tell people to take a hike, even if there is a price to pay for it.

 

[fracflyer]

A couple points...ACA and UAL already had an agreement that was making money for both parties. UAL used the bankruptcy laws to try to renig on that agreement. ACA did not agree to new terms with UAL and is willing to honor the existing contract unless UAL wants out. As for my posts...I don't think you'll see any "Oh pity us" or "UAL screwed us" talk from me. I just don't respect the way UAL does business and, in my opinion, can't be trusted to honor their agreements. Sometimes you have to tell people to take a hike, even if there is a price to pay for it.

My point is that ACA is making the choice to go it alone. United thought they were still in negotiations when ACA announced they were forming an LCC. I just don’t believe United should be demonized because they were pushing for a better deal in compliance with the bankruptcy laws. If ACA thinks they can go it alone and be successful, that’s great. But, don’t blame the path your company chooses on UAL. Good Luck

 

[General Lee]

Carl,

I liked your response. I hope you are right, I just think that the East Coast is one big quagmire of airlines fighting it out. Frequency might really be the selling point for the business pax--and we can only wonder what Southwest or Airtan will do looking for new markets. I think your choice of new larger aircraft is key, but your 100 RJs might be a liability in the beginning. Let's hope it works out and the FAA doesn't handcuff you guys again with your new aircraft training.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cappy]

I think the LCC idea ACA has is very interesting. I hope it does work, but I think it will be hard to compete initially with the likes of Southwest (in BWI--your closest LCC competition). The one thing Southwest has that you do not is extra seats. Those seats can spread the costs around and help pay the bills. If they charge $59 to fly to Manchester, NH from BWI, you will probably have to match it from IAD to stay competitive. Their 737-300 has probably 130 seats, and your RJ has 50. It will be hard, not impossible, for you to make money with those fares. I know you will be getting larger planes, and I can only hope you can get them quick and train pilots fast, but from what I heard about the Do-328 Jet training and the quagmire that resulted--it might take awhile to train the needed pilots. I hope you succeed.

Bye Bye--General Lee

PLease keep in mind that the company has plans to quickly add a narrowbody at the beginning of the LCC. I do not know what type yet but training is to begin in January '04. The plan also involves the idea of "costs per departure" according to management. How this differs from CASM is apparently in the short haul and frequency offered to lower the costs.

Chow.

 

[Cappy]

House

Keep telling yourself that bro. Just be cautious...you may be eating those words very soon when our management approaches us with rediculous concessions (I don't think most ACAers realize just how deep they're gonna try to go...get ready). I hope this works for obvious reasons, but try to prepare yourself for what MIGHT happen. It's hard enough to start an airline from scratch, and while in some ways having already been in operation will be an advantage, starting an airline with 87 to 100 jets is not without serious risks. Don't let your excitement blind you from the facts...that is a dangerous attitude, especially during contract negotiations. That attitude is why I believe ACA will set a new standard in SUB-standard narrowbody pay. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

I recommend that you get to know your negotiating team members. Although we will not fly for as high as Delta or UA rates, we certainly won't fly for much less than SW, ATA, or jetBlue. There are many factors that make up a rate per hour besides just the rate itself. Give them time and we will look at the results in due time. If it's good...vote yes. If not...vote no!

Chow

 

[Cappy]

Just wanted to clarify the title if this subject. I shouldhave said "ACA walking away from UAL" instead of "cutting UAL". No one is cutting anyone, just moving on to different horizons.

It might also be worth mentioning that there IS a way that ACA would remain with UAL. That scenario is that UAL re-affirms the existing contract for up 121 CRJ's and the same margin rates.

I might imagine it would be highly unlikely given the commitments to the other regionals already onboard.

Chow.

 

[RJPilott]

ACA cant even get a simple revision put out correctly. XFS? Rev 22 to FOM with different weights for same bag on different pages? Apologies on Crew Trac Messages with no PRF? Code 25 in full color and twin XFS checklists falling apart?... And we want to start an LCC in a few months? HAHAHAHA! Im right here to support it and pick up the slack till i can collect unemployment while looking for another job. But the mid-management is cutting off their own nose to spite their face and foreshadowing our numerous future changes currently with basic simple revisions.....TM and KS better wake up soon or this LCC will be JSAP'd to death.

I just got out of recurrent with highly intelligent, well informed instructors that i respect highly, and they are already disgusted with the basic, everyday revisions. Imagine what its going to be like when we want to attempt numerous changes in a short period of time to our operation for a successful independant operation..... ? I mean come on.. XFS and Rev 22 are basic revisions. Imagine adding another fleet type.... World class...lol



just anticipating the unemployment line...... (mind you i was pretty excited when "Project Independance" was announced) but reality sunk in with XFS and Rev 22... same old sh't, different day...