aca updates

[Machdog1]

alright!!

First as for the comment on chic waha they are part of the reason why this TA is out so I would tell anybody not to go work there. I don't want this TA as much as anybody else, that is the point I am trying to make. And I know I am not alone on that. On my original post yes I have said quit complaining and vote, in retrosespect, that was wrong to say ! But at least I am considering my options because honestly I don't know whats going to happen if we vote no, can you say you do? I don't know if I'm willing to risk that ,thats all!! I know other people agree with me, believe me I might have seemed to have been fully committed to a yes answer but that will not be decided until the roadshow and a long thought process, I suggest that all of you do the same.
later
P.S.
You all make valid points lets all try to keep an open mind.

 

[Brother Francis]

Ummm

So let me make sure I have this straight:

Chautauqua is in the midst of a strike vote over pay and work rule improvements while ACA is voting on contract concessions to same.

You personally advocated acceptance of said concessions then backpedaled in the face of criticism of your advocacy and are stating now you are only considering the option of accepting said concessions for fear of the unknown.

The CHQ pilots on the other hand, are ready to strike and to he// with the consequences rather than accept insufficient improvements.

Furthermore, an unscientific sampling from these boards shows the majority of your ACA colleagues are adamantly standing their ground, too.

And you blame Chautauqua for lowering the bar.

(Brother Francis wanders perplexedly away scratching head and mumbling)

 

[46Driver]

Nobody I have talked to is going to vote for this TA. The major sticking point is the 5 year contract. If it was a matter of the companies life or death, then maybe - but everybody thinks it is just a management ploy. And particularly galling to the Delta Connection side of the house is that our United benefits were taken away because we didn't contribute to United - now that United is in trouble, why are they demanding that the Delta side take pay cuts - you can't have it both ways.... The more I consider the facts, the more definite I am on voting NO.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

The roadshows start tomorrow. I genuinely hope that everyone will take all information into account before reaching a decision regarding this vote. If, after all the information is presented and the concessions still seem bogus, then vote NO on the tentative agreement with my blessing. After all, we have a closed contract with a profitable company and are not obligated to make any concessions at this time. If the opposite is true, I hope the pilot group will recognize it and act accordingly.

Are concessions necessary to keep the UAX flying? Maybe, maybe not. We may be able to keep the UAL contract without making any. Recent actions by UAL management in bankruptcy court have pointed to their unwillingness to let us disappear from their recovery plan. Alternatively, it may be necessary to make some due to the fact that there are several different carriers lining up to take over should UAL decide to dump us. The simple fact is that without all of the information, it is impossible to reach a sound conclusion.

I think these forums are an excellent resource. My initial reaction to the TA, based on the bullet points presented was "oh, that's not too bad." Surplus and BlueRidge, among others on the ALPA boards, etc. made some excellent points to the contrary and have now put me back on the fence. The biggest point that I'm trying to make now is that more information is necessary. Hopefully the next few days will start to answer some of the questions that we all have regarding what this TA will mean to all of our futures.

Let's keep the discussion going.

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

I respectfully disagree.

I think it is quite appropriate to approach the idea of concession with extreme skepticism. We should all be predisposed to reject the TA....and render it impotent. It shall be the responsibility of our MEC to convince us, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that concessions are necessary.

Blueridgeflyer

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Blueridger,

I was actually in the process of editing most of my posts on this thread as you were posting your response.

I do think that more information is needed before critical decisions are made. Some valid points have been offered as to why this TA does nothing except harm the pilot group. There are also compelling arguments as to why it is necessary.

My only appeal at this time is for the pilot group to gather as much information as possible before going to the vote.

I remain eternally ungrateful to the pilots who went to work for Freedom Airlines and thereby started this whipsaw.

Respectfully,
KingAirKiddo

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

Yes sir....I think your point is well taken.

I have witnessed some of our guys taking heat for being frontloaded against the TA prior to the road shows....as if this were a punishable crime It is a perfectly valid stance to have firm beliefs and attitudes already formulated. Lets see the salesmanship of our leadership at work...to overcome this.

Our leadership seems abundantly arrogant these days...recently proclaiming that they were chartered, among other things, "to protect our families." Why don’t they provide me with the financial instruments & then let me handle that one. Ridiculous yet true.....ok now I’m getting O.T.

Blueridgeflyer

 

[WhiteCloud]

Our leadership seems abundantly arrogant these days...recently proclaiming that they were chartered, among other things, "to protect our families."

They must have read some HR book that said that line of bull would "work".

 

[surplus1]

Re: alright!!

But at least I am considering my options because honestly I don't know whats going to happen if we vote no, can you say you do? I don't know if I'm willing to risk that ,thats all!!

I don't mean to offend you however, your above statement tells me that you are "considering" a YES vote base on fear of the unknown. It is true that you don't know what will happen if you vote NO. It is equally true that you don't know what will happen if you vote YES. The concession guarantee you NOTHING other than less pay. They do NOT guarantee your job security!

You all make valid points lets all try to keep an open mind.

An open mind, with all due respect, is not what you need. You are going to be bombarded by a PR campaign to vote YES, orchestrated by the national union and seconded by your MEC. It will be a sales pitch for thier own behavior and decisions.

It is fine to admire and support your MEC, but it is even better to do it while you protect your intersts. They are not infallible and if you vote NO, it will not be the first time that a TA has been rejected by the membership.

There is no real evidence that concessions are necessary from ANY of the UAL Express carriers. No matter what concessions you make, it won't save UAL and it wont "save" ACA. Your management is using fear tactics, just like the management of AWAC and SKYW. AWAC has already voted. You and SKYW need to say NO until you do KNOW what benefit you will actually get from saying yes.

The bottom line is you do not need to make concession on the basis of "I don't know what will happen if I say no. With or without concessions you still don't know what will happen.

If the people that ar pushing the concessions don't know what will happen, and believe me they DON"T no matter what they say, then WHY are you doing this??

 

[70Cuda]

Surplus 1,

You are dead right!!!! There is no need to go to any BS propaganda road show. For all those that think they are going to get the full picture there.......pull your heads out!!! Anyone that has been around the block at least once knows better. Some on this thread make me laugh. They show their inexperience and ignorance about the business world so blatantly. The bottom line is that you will give up pay and benifits. You will get nothing in return, no guarantees. That's all, folks!!!

There is only one solution......see my post in the "General" section titled "Pilots Unite." That is the ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY way we be able to make things right. If you don't have the fortitude to do this then you just need to shut-up and stop complaining about low wages. And smile when you bend over.

 

[Machdog1]

Road Show!!

Well I just got back from the road show, and I think those of you who have already decided to vote no, I recommend, should highly attend. Your future is at stake, if you want that full pay to the last day policy, then that is what exactly you are going to get the last day!! Are MEC and crew has been given all the facts and the future is grim. I know what some of you are thinking that we have been given the scare factor, I truely believe we have been given the cold reality and truth of the situation. Attend the road show!!
Thanks

 

[Blueridge]

Machdog,

Why do you feel this way and what were the facts presented at the road show?

BR

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Yeah, how about some info for those of us in the furloughed contingent who are still interested in what's going on.

 

[AirBoard]

Re: Road Show!!

I know what some of you are thinking that we have been given the scare factor, I truely believe we have been given the cold reality and truth of the situation. Attend the road show!!
Thanks

Just like I thought, you're an airline managements wet dream. They've got you by the balls and your not complaining one bit.

I'm NOT overpaid! I'm not racing to the bottom! Vote NO.

 

[Cappy]

Re: Re: alright!!

I don't mean to offend you however, your above statement tells me that you are "considering" a YES vote base on fear of the unknown. It is true that you don't know what will happen if you vote NO. It is equally true that you don't know what will happen if you vote YES. The concession guarantee you NOTHING other than less pay. They do NOT guarantee your job security!



So let me get this straight. You do not work at ACA, have not seen the TA in complete form, have not spoken with ALPA National reps, have not confered with our MEC or Negotiating Committee and you have the audacity to get on a public webboard and tell everone here that you know exacly what is good for us?

I'm not sure what is worse, you posting your uninformed rant or all you pilots that read and believe it.

Unless you have attended a presentation by our MEC and Negotiating committee then all any of you can offer is speculation and conjecture. I came here to post the details of the TA but it would do little good.