aca updates

[walkthasky]

unbelievable..

Ive been trying at this airline thing now for over 2 years and have hit every bump in the road. If all you guys can do is bash someone for their opinion then go elsewhere. As far as respect, you can all kiss my A$$. I had a senior cpt. tell me (3rd person) that he would rather have more pilots furloughed (like me) than him take a paycut. Nice f'in morals. Pilots can be so whiny and selfish i swear. And i heard another pilot say how he wont get his 100 hour guarantee that he "works out" every month and works for about 50. What happened to working for your money anyway. United guys dont get that guarantee anymore, so are they scumbags ??? They signed there concessions package and are scumbags now, and dont have self respect ?? They're trying to save there company, as am I. I think deep inside that someone who would rather see the company go down than take a paycut is such a hypocrite. So, i guess this means i have no self respect and im a scumbag, ok, thats fine. I thank you very much for your opinion.
bye
oh, oh yeah, PEACE..lol

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I hate the idea of concessions. In fact, it makes me nauseated to think of making any LESS than the pathetic peanuts that I was making during my 5 months at ACA. However, we're kind of in a pinch right now. There are, in fact, six other bidders for UEX flying right now. We have no other codeshares lined up. Going out on our own would create many additional furloughs and potentially put the company under. Are we really ready to stand by and watch OUR flying be snatched away from us?

I think there are a lot of people to blame for this, none of which are the ACA pilot group. Our "union brothers" who went to work for Freedom started this downward spiral. United management and Bain consulting also put our backs against the wall by taking advantage of bankruptcy laws. 78% of Mesa pilots did not recognize their value as professional pilots. It seems that the choice is quite clear--do nothing and watch the company die a slow painful death leaving 1600 more pilots out of a job, or take some concessions that will ensure a long term growth strategy and job stability.

No, I have not been "drinking the Kool Aid". Just trying to view the situation as objectively as possible and formulate an opinion based upon facts, not hype.

Later.

 

[Machdog1]

Right!!!!

Thank you !!
P.S.
Uh oh another scumbag LOL!!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Post retracted pending factual information from roadshow presentations.

 

[Herman Bloom]

I think there are just so many pilots now who have put all their eggs in this basket. But this business is starting to suck again (as it has in the past) and people are getting up tight. Sure it would suck to get furloughed...this is a fun job and I like doing it most of the time. Give it a couple of years...the luster wears off quickly. In any case, you should look at this as a great opportunity to go out and diversify your skills/prospects because I dont' think you really want to count on that pie in the sky job over at mainline anymore.

In life there are winners and there are losers. Sometimes circumstances arise which are beyond our control and we must adapt. Be a winner, get out there, and improve your situation. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to feel the way you do, I'm only saying that I disagree with this pay cut business. I think it may ultimately destroy what was once a great gig, and I'm not gonna be a part of that downward tumble.

Maybe I'll just go build houses or something! Good luck to all.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Pro-TA post deleted after careful consideration. Solidly back on the fence.

 

[Diesel]

Yes something needs to be done with this industry. As someone posted before it's like a race to the bottom to figure out who can pay the least. A short time ago it almost looked like the regionals were coming out of the minor league pay. Their size was growing and they were becoming a larger force to be recognized and respected.

The airlines start losing money hand over fist and are circling the drain so why is that a regional's problem? Just because united is taking pay cuts and furloughing pilots does that mean that the regionals have to follow suit? A 6-7 percent paycut means a lot more to somebody just scraping by vs. someone that is flying for the airlines.

There are a ton of furloughed pilots out there. Managment is using the tactic of you might be out on the street as a reason to accept pay cuts. Where are their pay cuts. What is everyone else doing to support the cause? Why is it that the pilots are the first that are required to give?

ACA owns their gates. Another regional just can't come in and start running out of aca's gates. ACA has leverage against united and they know it.

ACA can't afford any more furloughs right now. They are so thin on pilots right now that they are barely covering the flying as it is.

I for one would like to see what the rest of the company is giving to help out the current economic problem. Has anything been given from the rampers, the mx, the managment?

 

[pony251]

Herman Bloom-Maybe I'll just go build houses or something!

Right on my brother. The regional BS isn't worth putting up with anymore. Getting furloughed and having to find a real job turned out to be the best thing that could have happened for me. Thank God I can still fly in the Guard and the do that love of flying stuff. It is nice to see ACA play some hardball with United. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Original pro-TA post deleted. Solidly back on the fence.

 

[beech1900kid]

Trust only the printed word and that is it. I am not saying I do not trust my MEC, but I will trust the printed TA more.

I just have a problem with our low pay being cut. The annual raises will probably not even keep up with inflation. So every year my disposable income will be less and less. I just can't justify taking concessions but who knows. Sometimes a piece of crap can be wrapped up all nice with a pretty bow and it does not look like crap anymore. (Of course a piece of crap is still a piece of crap).

 

[zkmayo]

"I think there are a lot of people to blame for this, none of which are the ACA pilot group. Our "union brothers" who went to work for Freedom started this downward spiral. "

AMEN, and you know, these people will never be my brothers.

KingAirKiddo and Walthsky,

Good posts. Keep an open mind like you have and attend a road show. The MEC and the negotiating commitee have worked very hard on this and even though I am as of yet undecided, I am sure they have negotiated this TA with what they believe is the best interests of all ACA pilots in mind. It is up to the voting membership of this pilot group to decide whether they are correct or not. By all means, get to a roadshow and get the facts about the TA and then decide. It will be interesting to see the fine print and digest the details.

Good luck,

FRogJ jet capt

 

[j41driver]

Re: unbelievable..

I had a senior cpt. tell me (3rd person) that he would rather have more pilots furloughed (like me) than him take a paycut. Nice f'in morals.

So actually this senior captain didn't really tell you anything.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Entire post retracted except the following:

I agree...those self-serving b@stards who went to Freedom are definitely NOT my brothers either.

 

[Gndedbyfurlough]

Im with you machdog1 and others with similiar opinions. Listen at the roadshow before you jump to conclusions.
I am also on first year pay and live paycheck to paycheck. I think after all of the training and time and effort that it hase taken to get there the low pay is definatly an insult, but......
I am furloughed from another carrier and don't look foreward to being back on unemployment and feeling vulnerabal to sickness and injury because I cant afford insurance for my wife and daughter who is due to be born soon. I will do what I can to help us be competitive in the market, but I won't sell out for low pay to make management richer either. Lets here the facts try to trust our leadership hear both sides of the story and finally make AN EDJUCATED DECISION based on facts not emotion. Those senior people who are full out against cuts are also greatly cushioned by seniorty, with that piece of mind maybe this would be an easier decision??

 

[Snakum]

AN EDJUCATED DECISION

 

[walkthasky]

nothing ??

Well (j41 driver), i was standing right there, and i guess youre right i wasnt being talked to DIRECTLY. I was standing slightly to the side and maybe 3 feet away. But he said plenty for me and for other f/o's to hear ( as i previously posted). Whats your point anyway ?

 

[Blueridge]

Dangerous Assumptions...

Just a word of caution for all those thinking that this TA will guarantee us continued profitablity and expansion.

This TA guarantees us one thing and one thing only. We will make less than we would have without the TA.

Sure UAL has to pick us to affirm the TA but so what. It does not say that UAL has to expand us or even to keep us at our current level. UAL could very well use us at half our current capacity or less.

This TA does not bring back those who have been furloughed nor prevent anyone else from being furloughed.

This TA does not allow us to revisit the necessity of pay cuts if by chance the company winds up doing better than expected. We'd have to wait five painful years to do that.

Remember too that we are fighting for the business of a carrier that is in bankruptcy. There is no guarantee that they will emerge successfully. What happens if UAL accepts our bid but subsequently liquidates? Then we have an affirmed and binding TA that will surely be used against us when we go looking for new business.

Bottom line, don't read into what isn't there. I applaud the MEC for their dedication but don't follow them blindly. Make your own decision.

BR
FRJ CA

 

[KingAirKiddo]

These are all valid points...hopefully the roadshows will eliminate some of the ambiguity.

 

[j41driver]

Re: nothing ??

Well (j41 driver), i was standing right there, and i guess youre right i wasnt being talked to DIRECTLY. I was standing slightly to the side and maybe 3 feet away. But he said plenty for me and for other f/o's to hear ( as i previously posted). Whats your point anyway ?

The way I took your original post was that this senior guy told some guy who told another guy who then told you about it. I misunderstood you there. If you heard it from the horse's mouth then that's different. Sorry.

 

[neflyguy]

A common theme I've seen here, 'if the MEC and the negoatiating comitte have brought this back it must be a good TA.'

Lets remember one thing, it is not their job to determine if it is good or not, only to bring it back to the rank and file for a vote. Do not think that because this is the best the negotiating group could do (and by the way I have a great amount of respect for them). Do not assume that because the TA has been brought back for a vote, that it is autamtically endorsed by the union.
This is bargaining 101.

Listen to road shows, then think of what it will be like (especially for the younger guys) when you apply for a morrtgage, or get married, or have your first or second kid, or you upgrade.......
Ask the guys who have allready reached these turning points in their lives, how difficult it has been on what they make now. Our domiciles are BOS, IAD, ORD and CVG. The first 3 are some of the most expensive cities in the country, and I now one thing for certain that over the next 5 years the cost of living will not go down!!!

I do not understand why everyone is so married to United. They are not the only game in town. Yes to change partners would be painfull in the begining, but could be much better in the long run.
We did not even have to negotiate, we could play hard ball and make the company stick to the contract they signed. Do any of you believe that when things get better which they will, the company will let US NEGOTIATE A NEW TA IN OUR FAVOR.

Just think of you getting your first mortgage, and being embarrased at how much we make, or talking to a financial planner about putting your kids through college.

I will listen, and then I will vote, no.... I hope the smarter members of the pilot group join me......