ABX says NO THANK YOU to ASTAR

[inplaneview]

Did the DC-9 Captain class start on time? Or, as rumor had it, was class postponed due to shortage of 767 FO's? It's going to get even more grim with all the training scheduled...maybe we ought to hire!!!

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Talked to a bud that's been on duty for the past few days. He said the class started as scheduled.

Did the DC-9 Captain class start on time? Or, as rumor had it, was class postponed due to shortage of 767 FO's? It's going to get even more grim with all the training scheduled...maybe we ought to hire!!!

 

[abxaviator]

Did the DC-9 Captain class start on time? Or, as rumor had it, was class postponed due to shortage of 767 FO's? It's going to get even more grim with all the training scheduled...maybe we ought to hire!!!

The rumor was referenceing the additional 9 Capt proffers, those are indeed going to be delayed. The 7/31 class was started as scheduled.

 

[abxdx]

It's all good!

http://www.aircargoworld.com/break_news/08012007a.htm




Looks like all is well with the ANA contract!

 

[jdflyer51]

Be real careful what we wish for in an ANA contract or international language. Having worked for a non sched prior to coming to Airborne, I know that is not what I want to do again. Personally, I am convinced that DHL/Astar will complete the ABX purchase. I would prefer that we all sit back and wait until then and then hit them hard with a new joint contract. I would prefer to see us work together instead of against each other. International work with no work rules cannot help us.

 

[GoABX]

JDFlyer,

The together part won't come for 2-3 years after seniority lawsuits and most everybody being pissed off. In a perfect world both ABX and Astar would get TAs prior to a deal so both sides are working from a better position when the amalgamation occurs. That too will take a couple of years.

The problem is if management knows a deal is coming there is no way they will take something to a vote first.

 

[shooter]

Be real careful what we wish for in an ANA contract or international language. Having worked for a non sched prior to coming to Airborne, I know that is not what I want to do again. Personally, I am convinced that DHL/Astar will complete the ABX purchase. I would prefer that we all sit back and wait until then and then hit them hard with a new joint contract. I would prefer to see us work together instead of against each other. International work with no work rules cannot help us.

I agree that the pilot group and ABX management NEED to come to an agreement with ANA and future international operations. That is a whole other animal than the DHL work. I do not feel we are working against ASTAR, rather get frustrated when we have to do over 100 recovery fights for them. Our success and theirs depend wholly on the success of DHL here in America. And by looking at the decline of express business since DHL purchased Airborne Express is depressing to say the least.

If DHL does not hold/secure/grow express business the airlines are obsolete and they will just need to buy more trucks. Air Cargo World just revealed a DHL truck contractor that guarantees freight to move from the Columbus hub to the West Coast in 40 hours. Express is the need for the airlines. And I too bring past experience to ABX by operating the USPS Express mail EAGLE hub with a 14 year contract. Well, as we all know contract does not mean squat to the workers because FedEx now moves the Express Mail for them. With over 99% performance from the airline did not matter because sort/weather delays did not count against the airline performance. Sound familiar??? [Ironic: ABX now manages the EAGLE hub, Evergreen handled it when I worked there.] So if customers keep leaving DHL because of delivery failures, ALL of our jobs and growth are at risk.

As far as your prediction for ASTAR to purchase ABX, there should be no surprise on this board about where I stand. Would the integration of the two help the pilots? I think yes, but with the track record of the ASTAR management group, I would not count the eggs before they are hatched. Reference the last paragraph and you will see that it is the customers of DHL that need to be happy more than DHL to grow the airline side of the operation. DHL can operate in their own screwed up way all they want and be happy with the airline and keeps losing customers. Does that make good business sense? ABX management understands the performance keeps those customers happy enough to become larger contract repeat customers. DHL has lost those customers to cater to their pet airline to the detriment of both airlines. One’s fate is being witnessed by reduction in fleet and the other is just deferred with no growth until there are no other places to cut. So again I will ask: of the two management groups (ABX and ASTAR) which one do you think will grow the airline in all directions, the one that has proven it or one that has not?

 

[nitefr8dog]

you are spot on shooter!

 

[jdflyer51]

I don't expect either management group to be here in five years.

 

[FreightBumper]

I don't expect either management group to be here in five years.

As long as their demise doesn't drag us down with them.

 

[inplaneview]

Why not have our cake and eat it too?!? I'd like to see us (ABX) buy the 51% of Astar that DHL doesn't own, say goodbye to Mr. Dasburg, and still grow the ANA side of the business. DHL's share of the whole would be less than 25%, leaving our BOD and management team plenty of flexibility to grow the non-DHL side of the operation.

 

[jdflyer51]

As I understand it, Mr. Dasburg has already turned down Mr. Hete prior to DHL buying in.

 

[inplaneview]

As I understand it, Mr. Dasburg has already turned down Mr. Hete prior to DHL buying in.

Every man has his price.

 

[ootskdog]

Every man has his price.

So true...let's just see what actually happens.

Shouldn't take too long.

 

[erwaz]

Astar/DHL will most likely be the airline for DHL in the United States. DHL has made that clear. ABX will either be bought by Astar or be gone at some point. It seems ovious to me that DHL does not want ABX Air for the long term. ABX has nothing DHL wants. ABX has 10 or 12 aircraft with cargo doors that can take A containers. The C container is gone!! Will not be there in the future. I hpoe that Joe Hete does not screw the ABX pilots. Hete either has to sell to Astar or the company and its employees will be off DHL property. Thats the way I see it. I could be wrong though!!!!

 

[ootskdog]

How does Polar Air Cargo fit into all of this?

 

[shooter]

Astar/DHL will most likely be the airline for DHL in the United States. DHL has made that clear. ABX will either be bought by Astar or be gone at some point. It seems ovious to me that DHL does not want ABX Air for the long term. ABX has nothing DHL wants. ABX has 10 or 12 aircraft with cargo doors that can take A containers. The C container is gone!! Will not be there in the future. I hpoe that Joe Hete does not screw the ABX pilots. Hete either has to sell to Astar or the company and its employees will be off DHL property. Thats the way I see it. I could be wrong though!!!!

Erwas, the only reason ABX has strained relations with DHL is because Hete told them to bite wood when they wanted the 767SF for the current ACMI rates. I am glad he told DHL that and if you think ABX should just take it on the chin while Astar has the additional 5.25% percent mark up you are just flat wrong. And if DHL wants to hold it against ABX because of it they can go down to the scrub operation they were before they bought Airborne Express. They keep advertising “we’re #3. we’re #3” well, they were like #30 before they bought #3 on European money. They bought Airborne because they wanted to get into the express business while yours and DHL management have no idea how to do it. I don’t think there is a single person in the DHL operation that even has any airline experience. Do you think DHL would accept a customer that told them they want their packages 5.25% less than any other customer? No freakin’ way! But they feel they can bully ABX into it and they found out they are wrong.

I agree that the C containers are out and DHL wants A container. But like everyone has blinders on, the #3 company in America did just fine with those C containers. Plus if they had any experience on how an operation works, they would see the C container has many advantages over the A containers. Keeping in mind that there is almost 0 express freight that cannot go into a C container, time is always critical. So if you service a market with 3 regions with 1 aircraft, you just send the freight right off the aircraft to the trucks. With the A container, all markets need a sub-sort to break down the A container. With the C, it was already done out of the ILN hub. But if that’s what DHL wants, it can be done with just the A. I stopped trying to figure out the DHL clowns about a year ago.

There is no doubt that Astar is DHL’s pet airline, but if you owned DHL would you back the Cat3, 2 man crew more modern fuel efficient fleet or the CAT1, 3 man crew ancient Jet-A guzzling fleet? I know you have a bias here just as I do, but I want you to take that out of it and look at it from strictly a business sense. It makes no business sense that DHL would ostracize ABX for favor of Astar. And you know what, your management is just foolish for not upgrading you guys and as workers you should be piiiisssssed. They try to buy ABX to get what they don’t have and they will probably try again or try for someone else. Why? Do they not have the ability to do it themselves? Do they not have the know how or even know where to start? I believe they don’t. The Das is a poor poor excuse for a CEO. But don’t take my word for it….just ask the Northwest workers.

Anyway….did you see my post in DHL buys 49% of Astar thread? When it comes out, that information should be very useful to you guys when you get serious with that joker Das for a contract. Good luck!

p.s. IF

ABX has nothing DHL wants.

why did/does Astar want to buy them? Just an observation.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

There are people in the "Ivory Towers" of both UPS and FedEx who believe that ultimately, there will be a consolidation of air express companies involving either UPS or FedEx and DHL. Remember, UPS tried to do it in the late 80's (there was a $1.1 billion offer on the table), but backed out because they didn't like the "multiple subcontractors" arrangement under which DHL was structured. Since that time, they've learned that that's the only way business can be conducted in many foreign countries. DHL's "odd" way of doing business in those countries doesn't seem quite so odd now.

Many bean-counters and marketing people agree that FedEx could benefit equally from such an alliance. The main sticking point seems to be Fred Smith himself..he just plain don't like DHL. He's a brilliant businessman, but a bit of an egotist as well. He doesn't want to be seen as "needing" anybody else to grow his overseas business. But he turns 63 this week, and will likely step down as CEO within the next couple of years. That will leave the Board free to "do what's right for business."

Either one of those eventualities will render this entire Astar/ABX thing moot. As has been pointed out, having an exclusive contract with DHL to deliver freight won't matter much. "Early termination" clauses are conmmon in such contracts, and they serve to protect the owners of the companies, not the employees.

"This container" or "that container"..."this door" or "that door," "CAT I" or "CAT II"...it doesn't matter. NO airline in this day and age is basing their long-term survival on 30-40 year old, 3-man aircraft. And that's what Astar is buying.

I still have a feeling that a few years from now, the ABX guys will be glad that they didn't stay tied to DHL's apron strings.

 

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

alarm clock

dan:
did your alarm clock wake you up? can i have my 72 hours back?

 

[erwaz]

I reread my post from the other day. I did not mean to come accross so harsh. I just wanted to say that I hope the ABX pilots don't get screwed by Hete. I hope Hete and the board did not screw the employees of ABX by not accepting DAZ's offer. I know Daz is no prize but in the long run I still believe that the Pilots at Astar and ABX would be better off together AND WORKING TOGETHER than not.

DHL has always been an express company. That was their only product they offered until recently. Overnight express was it! And guess what? They did it well!! Fact!! Even in their screwed up ignigma of an operation. Earlier this year the University of Georga performed a test of UPS, FED-EX, DHL systems. They pushed the limit of each company in every aspect of their opperations. Who was the best. Believe it or not good old DHL!!! That made me feel good. I want DHL to do well because if they do then MAYBE just MAYBE I will too. I think DP has made it very clear that they fully intend to do well in the USA. DP is spending money here like it grows on trees. And DP has the money make no mistake about that!! Lots of money!! It will take years for DHL to clean up the mess that DHL itself has created. And they will.

From a business view point the C container makes no sense at all. And all the junk equipment it requires. When DHL gets a fully automated system at ILN you will see why the A container works better. In CVG our hub turns were only about 3 hours not this 5-7 hour S--T!!