ABX says NO THANK YOU to ASTAR

[ootskdog]

How does Polar Air Cargo fit into all of this?

 

[shooter]

Astar/DHL will most likely be the airline for DHL in the United States. DHL has made that clear. ABX will either be bought by Astar or be gone at some point. It seems ovious to me that DHL does not want ABX Air for the long term. ABX has nothing DHL wants. ABX has 10 or 12 aircraft with cargo doors that can take A containers. The C container is gone!! Will not be there in the future. I hpoe that Joe Hete does not screw the ABX pilots. Hete either has to sell to Astar or the company and its employees will be off DHL property. Thats the way I see it. I could be wrong though!!!!

Erwas, the only reason ABX has strained relations with DHL is because Hete told them to bite wood when they wanted the 767SF for the current ACMI rates. I am glad he told DHL that and if you think ABX should just take it on the chin while Astar has the additional 5.25% percent mark up you are just flat wrong. And if DHL wants to hold it against ABX because of it they can go down to the scrub operation they were before they bought Airborne Express. They keep advertising “we’re #3. we’re #3” well, they were like #30 before they bought #3 on European money. They bought Airborne because they wanted to get into the express business while yours and DHL management have no idea how to do it. I don’t think there is a single person in the DHL operation that even has any airline experience. Do you think DHL would accept a customer that told them they want their packages 5.25% less than any other customer? No freakin’ way! But they feel they can bully ABX into it and they found out they are wrong.

I agree that the C containers are out and DHL wants A container. But like everyone has blinders on, the #3 company in America did just fine with those C containers. Plus if they had any experience on how an operation works, they would see the C container has many advantages over the A containers. Keeping in mind that there is almost 0 express freight that cannot go into a C container, time is always critical. So if you service a market with 3 regions with 1 aircraft, you just send the freight right off the aircraft to the trucks. With the A container, all markets need a sub-sort to break down the A container. With the C, it was already done out of the ILN hub. But if that’s what DHL wants, it can be done with just the A. I stopped trying to figure out the DHL clowns about a year ago.

There is no doubt that Astar is DHL’s pet airline, but if you owned DHL would you back the Cat3, 2 man crew more modern fuel efficient fleet or the CAT1, 3 man crew ancient Jet-A guzzling fleet? I know you have a bias here just as I do, but I want you to take that out of it and look at it from strictly a business sense. It makes no business sense that DHL would ostracize ABX for favor of Astar. And you know what, your management is just foolish for not upgrading you guys and as workers you should be piiiisssssed. They try to buy ABX to get what they don’t have and they will probably try again or try for someone else. Why? Do they not have the ability to do it themselves? Do they not have the know how or even know where to start? I believe they don’t. The Das is a poor poor excuse for a CEO. But don’t take my word for it….just ask the Northwest workers.

Anyway….did you see my post in DHL buys 49% of Astar thread? When it comes out, that information should be very useful to you guys when you get serious with that joker Das for a contract. Good luck!

p.s. IF

ABX has nothing DHL wants.

why did/does Astar want to buy them? Just an observation.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

There are people in the "Ivory Towers" of both UPS and FedEx who believe that ultimately, there will be a consolidation of air express companies involving either UPS or FedEx and DHL. Remember, UPS tried to do it in the late 80's (there was a $1.1 billion offer on the table), but backed out because they didn't like the "multiple subcontractors" arrangement under which DHL was structured. Since that time, they've learned that that's the only way business can be conducted in many foreign countries. DHL's "odd" way of doing business in those countries doesn't seem quite so odd now.

Many bean-counters and marketing people agree that FedEx could benefit equally from such an alliance. The main sticking point seems to be Fred Smith himself..he just plain don't like DHL. He's a brilliant businessman, but a bit of an egotist as well. He doesn't want to be seen as "needing" anybody else to grow his overseas business. But he turns 63 this week, and will likely step down as CEO within the next couple of years. That will leave the Board free to "do what's right for business."

Either one of those eventualities will render this entire Astar/ABX thing moot. As has been pointed out, having an exclusive contract with DHL to deliver freight won't matter much. "Early termination" clauses are conmmon in such contracts, and they serve to protect the owners of the companies, not the employees.

"This container" or "that container"..."this door" or "that door," "CAT I" or "CAT II"...it doesn't matter. NO airline in this day and age is basing their long-term survival on 30-40 year old, 3-man aircraft. And that's what Astar is buying.

I still have a feeling that a few years from now, the ABX guys will be glad that they didn't stay tied to DHL's apron strings.

 

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

alarm clock

dan:
did your alarm clock wake you up? can i have my 72 hours back?

 

[erwaz]

I reread my post from the other day. I did not mean to come accross so harsh. I just wanted to say that I hope the ABX pilots don't get screwed by Hete. I hope Hete and the board did not screw the employees of ABX by not accepting DAZ's offer. I know Daz is no prize but in the long run I still believe that the Pilots at Astar and ABX would be better off together AND WORKING TOGETHER than not.

DHL has always been an express company. That was their only product they offered until recently. Overnight express was it! And guess what? They did it well!! Fact!! Even in their screwed up ignigma of an operation. Earlier this year the University of Georga performed a test of UPS, FED-EX, DHL systems. They pushed the limit of each company in every aspect of their opperations. Who was the best. Believe it or not good old DHL!!! That made me feel good. I want DHL to do well because if they do then MAYBE just MAYBE I will too. I think DP has made it very clear that they fully intend to do well in the USA. DP is spending money here like it grows on trees. And DP has the money make no mistake about that!! Lots of money!! It will take years for DHL to clean up the mess that DHL itself has created. And they will.

From a business view point the C container makes no sense at all. And all the junk equipment it requires. When DHL gets a fully automated system at ILN you will see why the A container works better. In CVG our hub turns were only about 3 hours not this 5-7 hour S--T!!

 

[abxaviator]

Our turns used to be shorter too. DHL moved the arrivals up and departures back. Also, how many pieces were sorted in CVG and how many now in ILN, that's why it takes longer.

 

[shooter]

I reread my post from the other day. I did not mean to come accross so harsh. I just wanted to say that I hope the ABX pilots don't get screwed by Hete. I hope Hete and the board did not screw the employees of ABX by not accepting DAZ's offer. I know Daz is no prize but in the long run I still believe that the Pilots at Astar and ABX would be better off together AND WORKING TOGETHER than not.

DHL has always been an express company. That was their only product they offered until recently. Overnight express was it! And guess what? They did it well!! Fact!! Even in their screwed up ignigma of an operation. Earlier this year the University of Georga performed a test of UPS, FED-EX, DHL systems. They pushed the limit of each company in every aspect of their opperations. Who was the best. Believe it or not good old DHL!!! That made me feel good. I want DHL to do well because if they do then MAYBE just MAYBE I will too. I think DP has made it very clear that they fully intend to do well in the USA. DP is spending money here like it grows on trees. And DP has the money make no mistake about that!! Lots of money!! It will take years for DHL to clean up the mess that DHL itself has created. And they will.

From a business view point the C container makes no sense at all. And all the junk equipment it requires. When DHL gets a fully automated system at ILN you will see why the A container works better. In CVG our hub turns were only about 3 hours not this 5-7 hour S--T!!

you are correct about DHL express. My point is that since being founded in 1969, DHL had never run the express business as it should. That is why the international business had grown leaps and bounds while the US market (the best days for US companies as customers) declined. The push in the early '80's only provided DHL with 2-3% of the domestic market share. By the late '80's that grew to around 5% only to decrease back to 2% by the late '90's. By purchasing Airborne, their market share screamed to around 21% only to be on a decline since. So you have to deduce that someone making the decisions for DHL in the US is incompetent.

I hope you are right about the new equipment making DHL a better competitor against UPS and FedEx. But it was my understanding the new "smalls" sort has already been on line. What are they working on now?

 

[abxaviator]

It's official, "Hot News" release of our purchase of the first 767ER from Air China.

 

[shooter]

It's official, "Hot News" release of our purchase of the first 767ER from Air China.

1 down, 4 to go. I wonder when they will release the rest of the AA aircraft.

 

[AV8OR]

Shooter, legit question.....

I hear the phrase, "Airborne knew the right way to get Express done and DHL doesn't know jack about it." or something to that affect and often a positive statement regarding the C can tied to it. Now, I'm all for thinking outside the box, (no pun intended), but given that no other shipper in the world who ships "express" has gone to the C- can and the Chinese have never sought fit to steal the patent and make them cheaper, I've always been surprised that Airborne/ABX folks seemed to think that the C-can was gonna set the world on fire, once they all apprently realized how inferior A-cans were. Do the ABX folks see this like the old "VHS" vs. "Beta" debate, where clearly the better choice is shouted down by larger more established entities?

I can see how the C-can may have worked for Airborne for a time, but it just seems that the way forward would have eventually meant A-cans.


Last, as far as laying investor money on ABX or AStar.....I never tought either of us had the whole package. ABX, 2 man crews and some fan engine jets, but almost no cargo doors and fairly ineficient (IMO) DC-9s. AStar, Cargo door fleet and long history of doing things the "DHL way", but also, no CATII, 3 man crews, and hangar queen A-300s.

Depending on how things play out, we'll see whether or not Joe and Das made the best decisions. Joe wanted more money than DHL would give and ANA was willing to pony up. Das/DHL, seeing that Joe was desiring to pull away from DHL, decided to see if they could re-rope the ABX calf into the herd. So far, not.

Last Q. Since Joe seems to be headed in another direction, one that doesn't involve DHL, and yall seem pleased with this decision, do you think yall are gonna be pi$$ed if we suddenly announced an AStar refleet plan? Not baiting, and I don't know of one. Just wondering.

 

[shooter]

Shooter, legit question.....

I hear the phrase, "Airborne knew the right way to get Express done and DHL doesn't know jack about it." or something to that affect and often a positive statement regarding the C can tied to it. Now, I'm all for thinking outside the box, (no pun intended), but given that no other shipper in the world who ships "express" has gone to the C- can and the Chinese have never sought fit to steal the patent and make them cheaper, I've always been surprised that Airborne/ABX folks seemed to think that the C-can was gonna set the world on fire, once they all apprently realized how inferior A-cans were. Do the ABX folks see this like the old "VHS" vs. "Beta" debate, where clearly the better choice is shouted down by larger more established entities?

I can see how the C-can may have worked for Airborne for a time, but it just seems that the way forward would have eventually meant A-cans.


Last, as far as laying investor money on ABX or AStar.....I never tought either of us had the whole package. ABX, 2 man crews and some fan engine jets, but almost no cargo doors and fairly ineficient (IMO) DC-9s. AStar, Cargo door fleet and long history of doing things the "DHL way", but also, no CATII, 3 man crews, and hangar queen A-300s.

Depending on how things play out, we'll see whether or not Joe and Das made the best decisions. Joe wanted more money than DHL would give and ANA was willing to pony up. Das/DHL, seeing that Joe was desiring to pull away from DHL, decided to see if they could re-rope the ABX calf into the herd. So far, not.

Last Q. Since Joe seems to be headed in another direction, one that doesn't involve DHL, and yall seem pleased with this decision, do you think yall are gonna be pi$$ed if we suddenly announced an AStar refleet plan? Not baiting, and I don't know of one. Just wondering.

wasn't going to "set the cargo world on fire" because ABX held the patent on it and would not release it. Maybe now that DHL owns the patent, it will be opened for all carriers. Good questions though. More to ponder about the future of Air Cargo...........

p.s. the re-fleet Astar would be great news for you and DHL. Your airline needs it. I don't see why I would be upset, it is long over due. Actually I would breathe a sigh of relief since it means Das is going to try and build an airline rather than hose some other work group for all their hard work. Got some hot news of your own???

 

[shooter]

AV8OR, with all RJ's on line and all those EMB-120's being parked, don't you think the C-container is a better option to convert than net a loose load? Could be the future short hauls on the ramp. And DHL owns it. What do you think? Want to buy a couple EMB-120's w/me?

 

[AV8OR]

AV8OR, with all RJ's on line and all those EMB-120's being parked, don't you think the C-container is a better option to convert than net a loose load? Could be the future short hauls on the ramp. And DHL owns it. What do you think? Want to buy a couple EMB-120's w/me?

Shooter,

Thanks for the invite, but,

A. I ain't got any money.

B. I think we're too late. I've seen at least one Brasilia on the ramp already.

C. I need more than a 1.75% return on my investment.

Maybe we could get something done with that idea in
Asia. You got any connections there?:beer:

 

[shooter]

Shooter,

Thanks for the invite, but,

A. I ain't got any money.

B. I think we're too late. I've seen at least one Brasilia on the ramp already.

C. I need more than a 1.75% return on my investment.

Maybe we could get something done with that idea in
Asia. You got any connections there?:beer:

A. borrow it, like me.

B. I think that is a loose load Brazilia, we would use the C-container.

C. Got me there.

I ain't flyin no Brazilian A/C in Asia....the world might stop turning!:laugh:

(They could not even get all the labeling in english in there.)

 

[Box-Hauler]

Shooter, are the floors of the RJ even able to handle a cargo load. Also why use a jet when you can get a turbo prop, more efficient on the short hauls. Think ATR 42/72, Saab 2000, Jetstream41. I bet you could get a sweet deal on a few of any of the above. Offer a "mesa" like deal to start flying in Asia and you are set. I got about $20 and am looking to invest heavily, let me know when you are ready........imp: