ABX 1224 I'm confused......

[niteflyr1]

I am concerned because you are lowering the bar. I am not happy about it and neither is the rest of the industry. We have every right to question it and discuss it because it affects us all in the long run. In spite of what you might believe your decisions as a pilot group affect many many people in this industry. You will be called out on it here and many other places.

What the ABX pilots were forced to agree to is a product of what's wrong in this industry, not the cause of it. As long as management can keep us fighting each other, they don't have to.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

What the ABX pilots were forced to agree to is a product of what's wrong in this industry, not the cause of it. As long as management can keep us fighting each other, they don't have to.

Amen, brother!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

While we are at it, and this is for anyone out there. Could someone name One Single commitment DHL has signed and then honored?

How about the CBA signed in March of 2008? As far as I can tell, everything DHL is doing, and not doing, is permissable under that agreement. They seem to be following it pretty scrupulously.

Old contract = Jobs for life
New contract = Jobs until March, 2010 + a raise and modest signing bonus

Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

"The fault, Dear Brutus, is not in our stars; but in ourselves..."

 

[fob727]

How about the CBA signed in March of 2008? As far as I can tell, everything DHL is doing, and not doing, is permissable under that agreement. They seem to be following it pretty scrupulously.

Old contract = Jobs for life
New contract = Jobs until March, 2010 + a raise and modest signing bonus

Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

"The fault, Dear Brutus, is not in our stars; but in ourselves..."

Your "no-brainers" put you on the street.

 

[flyinboxes]

What the ABX pilots were forced to agree to is a product of what's wrong in this industry, not the cause of it. As long as management can keep us fighting each other, they don't have to.

The ABX pilots weren't forced to agree to anything. And that my friend is the problem with this industry.

 

[rotor&wing]

Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

Wasn't that the same term the FAA used when they revoked your certificate?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Your "no-brainers" put you on the street.

Do not speak of that which you do not know. Tell us instead what put you on the street? At least your hostages died on the field of battle and facing the enemy, not as a result of a self-inflicted (and fatal) wound to the foot.

The ABX pilots weren't forced to agree to anything. And that my friend is the problem with this industry.

The problem, FB, is that ABX pilots are being "forced"...not by management, but by circumstances and the changing tides of our industry. Over the last 2 years it's become apparent that there are more pilots, more airplanes, and more ACMI carriers out there than are presently needed. The decision by DHL to close down Astar hasn't resulted in any reduction of service. If anything, it will most likely bring down the cost of acquiring such service. At this point, ABX is wisely doing whatever it takes to stay in the game. When the market for their services improves, I'm sure they (both management and pilots) will seek to increase their stake in that game. Joe Hete may not be thrilled with a profit margin of 1.5%, but it's better than having those airplanes parked...WAY better.

The same could be said of a $100,000/yr 727 Captain vs. an unemployed one.

FedEx and UPS crewmembers have agreed to work rule changes and reduced BLG's in order to preserve as many jobs as possible. Are they also "lowering the bar," or are they demonstrating to management their solidarity and committment to each other, and to their cause?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Wasn't that the same term the FAA used when they revoked your certificate?

I would expect that from a guy with the words " == TrueValue == " tattooed across his forehead.

As usual, R&W, you never let the fact that you don't know Jack-$hit about something keep you from expressing an opinion about it.

Now, back into the drawer with you. Hurry, hurry! The screwdrivers are starting to miss you!

 

[fob727]

Do not speak of that which you do not know. Tell us instead what put you on the street? At least your hostages died on the field of battle and facing the enemy, not as a result of a self-inflicted (and fatal) wound to the foot.

The problem, FB, is that ABX pilots are being "forced"...not by management, but by circumstances and the changing tides of our industry. Over the last 2 years it's become apparent that there are more pilots, more airplanes, and more ACMI carriers out there than are presently needed. The decision by DHL to close down Astar hasn't resulted in any reduction of service. If anything, it will most likely bring down the cost of acquiring such service. At this point, ABX is wisely doing whatever it takes to stay in the game. When the market for their services improves, I'm sure they (both management and pilots) will seek to increase their stake in that game. Joe Hete may not be thrilled with a profit margin of 1.5%, but it's better than having those airplanes parked...WAY better.

The same could be said of a $100,000/yr 727 Captain vs. an unemployed one.

FedEx and UPS crewmembers have agreed to work rule changes and reduced BLG's in order to preserve as many jobs as possible. Are they also "lowering the bar," or are they demonstrating to management their solidarity and committment to each other, and to their cause?

Jimbo, I'm not sure I really understand your post. I don't believe you do either.

Are you actually comparing what's going on at ABX to the circumstances at FDX and UPS? That's like saying it's OK for the pilots at RAH to make
$37 hr. because the can make up for it by working more. I thought you were brighter than that.

I guess not.

 

[AV8OR]

One consistent truth promoted on this board...in these threads.....whatever 1224 does to protect or gain jobs for 1224 (concessions, enforcing scope, side letters that unilaterally affect another ATSG pilot group)...it's ALWAYS justified because they're simply adapting to market conditions. If anybody else is even RUMORED to do it....they're lowering the bar and are the scum of the earth.

I think the reason AStar guys morbidly chide guys like nite is because of the absolute arrogance and hypocrisy of SOME at 1224 who would jump on every message board they can find and call anyone else doing what they were doin scabs....etc.

Honestly, we all know it's cut throat. The whole "can't we all just get along" "there's plenty of flying for everybody" " let's all get together and have Thanksiving dinner" was BS right out of the gate. ALPA "tried" to enforce our scope. Rightly so. Anybody at AStar who ever thought AStar and 1224 were gonna be buds after that was just pi$$in up a rope! We sacrificed our scope for what we thought was a guarantee and holding the bar, got railroaded. ABX doesn't wanna have that happen to them (good luck with that) so they gave in to concessions. That simple. The only issue I have is for those who criticized US, for ALLEGEDLY doin the same thing are now ACTUALLY doing it!

It was a knife fight from the beginning. We lost. They "won". Personally, as far as the "industry" goes, I'd like to see all the ATSG boys pull together and put their foot squarely on the neck of Hete and Appel, but that prob aint gonna happen as long as 1224 tries to bully the other two ATSG pilot groups into submission to whatever they deem the best interest of 1224. I'd rather be on the street than have to put up with that shizzle.

AStar guys.....do you really think your ever gonna get nite to admit that? Come on.

 

[rotor&wing]

As usual, R&W, you never let the fact that you don't know Jack-$hit about something keep you from expressing an opinion about it.

FACT: Your ATP was revoked by the FAA after observing a line check with you as Captain.

FACT: Without a certificate you were terminated employment with Astar.

FACT: This was not your first termination from the company.

 

[nitefr8dog]

One consistent truth promoted on this board...in these threads.....whatever 1224 does to protect or gain jobs for 1224 (concessions, enforcing scope, side letters that unilaterally affect another ATSG pilot group)...it's ALWAYS justified because they're simply adapting to market conditions. If anybody else is even RUMORED to do it....they're lowering the bar and are the scum of the earth.

I think the reason AStar guys morbidly chide guys like nite is because of the absolute arrogance and hypocrisy of SOME at 1224 who would jump on every message board they can find and call anyone else doing what they were doin scabs....etc.

Honestly, we all know it's cut throat. The whole "can't we all just get along" "there's plenty of flying for everybody" " let's all get together and have Thanksiving dinner" was BS right out of the gate. ALPA "tried" to enforce our scope. Rightly so. Anybody at AStar who ever thought AStar and 1224 were gonna be buds after that was just pi$$in up a rope! We sacrificed our scope for what we thought was a guarantee and holding the bar, got railroaded. ABX doesn't wanna have that happen to them (good luck with that) so they gave in to concessions. That simple. The only issue I have is for those who criticized US, for ALLEGEDLY doin the same thing are now ACTUALLY doing it!

It was a knife fight from the beginning. We lost. They "won". Personally, as far as the "industry" goes, I'd like to see all the ATSG boys pull together and put their foot squarely on the neck of Hete and Appel, but that prob aint gonna happen as long as 1224 tries to bully the other two ATSG pilot groups into submission to whatever they deem the best interest of 1224. I'd rather be on the street than have to put up with that shizzle.

AStar guys.....do you really think your ever gonna get nite to admit that? Come on.

Ah come on aren't we having fun!

 

[hvydriver]

Ah come on aren't we having fun!

It seems the Germans didn't want to play ball with Uncle Joe.

 

[fob727]

How did the poster on another board put it....."broke it off in our farfignugin". Hilarious...the post , anyways.

Sorry, boys, but you should have expected that from DHL.

 

[nitefr8dog]

It seems the Germans didn't want to play ball with Uncle Joe.

You do not really believe that do you? Look around the ramp 80% percent of the aircraft on the CVG ramp fall under the ATSG umbrella. Pilots take all this personally ABX/DHL do not. I think DHL has know the contract numbers all the time. One issue DHL wants all the freighters soon to be 34 for the domestic market. Joe will never put all his 767 eggs in one basket again.The message on the other board is way different than the 1224 board time will tell. As for me I would like to see the DHL flying go away not worth the trouble for what they are willing to pay! But AV8OR, Hvy and Fob are the ones with the crystal ball we shall see. (I say a couple of weeks)