ABX 1224 I'm confused......

[rotor&wing]

As usual, R&W, you never let the fact that you don't know Jack-$hit about something keep you from expressing an opinion about it.

FACT: Your ATP was revoked by the FAA after observing a line check with you as Captain.

FACT: Without a certificate you were terminated employment with Astar.

FACT: This was not your first termination from the company.

 

[nitefr8dog]

One consistent truth promoted on this board...in these threads.....whatever 1224 does to protect or gain jobs for 1224 (concessions, enforcing scope, side letters that unilaterally affect another ATSG pilot group)...it's ALWAYS justified because they're simply adapting to market conditions. If anybody else is even RUMORED to do it....they're lowering the bar and are the scum of the earth.

I think the reason AStar guys morbidly chide guys like nite is because of the absolute arrogance and hypocrisy of SOME at 1224 who would jump on every message board they can find and call anyone else doing what they were doin scabs....etc.

Honestly, we all know it's cut throat. The whole "can't we all just get along" "there's plenty of flying for everybody" " let's all get together and have Thanksiving dinner" was BS right out of the gate. ALPA "tried" to enforce our scope. Rightly so. Anybody at AStar who ever thought AStar and 1224 were gonna be buds after that was just pi$$in up a rope! We sacrificed our scope for what we thought was a guarantee and holding the bar, got railroaded. ABX doesn't wanna have that happen to them (good luck with that) so they gave in to concessions. That simple. The only issue I have is for those who criticized US, for ALLEGEDLY doin the same thing are now ACTUALLY doing it!

It was a knife fight from the beginning. We lost. They "won". Personally, as far as the "industry" goes, I'd like to see all the ATSG boys pull together and put their foot squarely on the neck of Hete and Appel, but that prob aint gonna happen as long as 1224 tries to bully the other two ATSG pilot groups into submission to whatever they deem the best interest of 1224. I'd rather be on the street than have to put up with that shizzle.

AStar guys.....do you really think your ever gonna get nite to admit that? Come on.

Ah come on aren't we having fun!

 

[hvydriver]

Ah come on aren't we having fun!

It seems the Germans didn't want to play ball with Uncle Joe.

 

[fob727]

How did the poster on another board put it....."broke it off in our farfignugin". Hilarious...the post , anyways.

Sorry, boys, but you should have expected that from DHL.

 

[nitefr8dog]

It seems the Germans didn't want to play ball with Uncle Joe.

You do not really believe that do you? Look around the ramp 80% percent of the aircraft on the CVG ramp fall under the ATSG umbrella. Pilots take all this personally ABX/DHL do not. I think DHL has know the contract numbers all the time. One issue DHL wants all the freighters soon to be 34 for the domestic market. Joe will never put all his 767 eggs in one basket again.The message on the other board is way different than the 1224 board time will tell. As for me I would like to see the DHL flying go away not worth the trouble for what they are willing to pay! But AV8OR, Hvy and Fob are the ones with the crystal ball we shall see. (I say a couple of weeks)

 

[hvydriver]

You do not really believe that do you? Look around the ramp 80% percent of the aircraft on the CVG ramp fall under the ATSG umbrella. Pilots take all this personally ABX/DHL do not. I think DHL has know the contract numbers all the time. One issue DHL wants all the freighters soon to be 34 for the domestic market. Joe will never put all his 767 eggs in one basket again.The message on the other board is way different than the 1224 board time will tell. As for me I would like to see the DHL flying go away not worth the trouble for what they are willing to pay! But AV8OR, Hvy and Fob are the ones with the crystal ball we shall see. (I say a couple of weeks)

It would seem I do believe that nite, since I said it. I do believe though that the deal breaker (unless Joe pulls another one out of the fire again) is that DHL wants possession of all of ABX's 767 fleet. For an ACMI carrier, that would not be a good thing. I would be curious to know if they thought there was a chance that Hete would agree to it, or if they figured he'd walk away from the deal once they tossed that requirement out there. Deliberate sabotage, if you will.

 

[fob727]

You do not really believe that do you? Look around the ramp 80% percent of the aircraft on the CVG ramp fall under the ATSG umbrella. Pilots take all this personally ABX/DHL do not. I think DHL has know the contract numbers all the time. One issue DHL wants all the freighters soon to be 34 for the domestic market. Joe will never put all his 767 eggs in one basket again.The message on the other board is way different than the 1224 board time will tell. As for me I would like to see the DHL flying go away not worth the trouble for what they are willing to pay! But AV8OR, Hvy and Fob are the ones with the crystal ball we shall see. (I say a couple of weeks)

Nitey, I don't profess to having a crystal ball; but one thing I do have is the ability to write with punctuation. I think I got that in the third grade.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

FACT: Your ATP was revoked by the FAA after observing a line check with you as Captain.

FACT: Without a certificate you were terminated employment with Astar.

FACT: This was not your first termination from the company.

WRONG, WRONG, and WRONG.

Why do I feel like I'm engaging in a dialogue with a Taiwan-made claw-hammer with a split wooden handle, or a member of the Heavens' Gate cult? Maybe if you had some FACTUAL knowledge of what you're talking about, we could....

Oh never mind, there's no use arguing over it. The facts be damned, you're going to believe what you want to believe, and to bring as many other nit-wits along with you as possible.

If you don't mind, I do have a few questions for you;

1) DHL has never, to anybody's knowledge, re-hired anybody who's voluntarily quit, much less been fired. Why would they do that, UNLESS a Federal Arbitrator (or one of DHL's high-zoot law firms) indicated to them that it was in their best interest to do so?

2) Why do you care?

3) Can you guys hop a ride on any old comet, or does it have to be Hale-Bopp?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Are you actually comparing what's going on at ABX to the circumstances at FDX and UPS? That's like saying it's OK for the pilots at RAH to make $37 hr. because the can make up for it by working more.

I don't know enough about what's going on at RAH to comment, but comparing "what's going on at ABX to UPS and FedEx?" Absolutely! They're all responding to changes in the market and in the economy. Even though FedEx and UPS actually made money last year, both pilot groups were asked to choose between concessions and job cuts. Both groups (wisely) chose concessions. It sent the management of both companies a strong message, but more importantly, it was the right thing to do.

ABX is facing the same dilemma, with one significant difference...they're an ACMI carrier. Where the cut-off point for FedEx and UPS wages is that where the company suspends service because it's no longer profitable, the cut-off point for ABX wages is that where DHL seeks another carrier to operate that service. Joe Hete may be a bastard and an SOB, but his decision not to become DHL's lap-dog, and to invest in 767's whether DHL paid for them or not is what's keeping that company alive.

If I were an ABX'er, I'd be doing whatever it took to stay in the game for now, and wait until the economy recovers to make my move. In 3-4 years DHL's volume will be back to what it was a few years ago, crude oil prices will be back to what they were a few years ago, 767's will be the gold-standard for ACMI carriers, and ABX pilots will be in a much better position to negotiate a new contract.

See, you were correct the first time. I AM brighter than you thought.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Nitey, I don't profess to having a crystal ball; but one thing I do have is the ability to write with punctuation. I think I got that in the third grade.

Thats the best you've got! Weak!