AAI/SWA solution

[puddlejumper101]

They are following the Process Agreement signed by all parties.


Godspeed!


OYS

not to feed the troll, but if your boss comes to you and asks for an extension...to make things better possibly...to keep outsiders from messing with your internal stuff why not allow it? Whether they are following the agreement or not it really shows there is a militant motivation here. Going to arbitration is something all parties involved should avoid, but you being a Delta pilot with ALPA being your union...whose side would you be on??

 

[ASADFW7]

AAI does not have the SWA CBA, they are not yet SWAPA pilots. They are ALPA pilots, and they are working under their own negotiated contract. It is not as mature and productive as the SWAPA contract. If the two groups can come to an agreement perhaps that will change, and they will become SWAPA pilots quicker. The AIP did have SWAPA pay rates per hour that were approximately $218 an hour for their captains. I guess that counts for little in contrast to the lessor AAI CBA compared to the SWAPA CBA.

 

[dicko]

before SL-9 I used to feel bad for ATN guys dealing with Forano and his MGMNT team, but after seeing this SL-9 collapse and the way the ATN ALPA MEC has behaved, I am starting to think Forano and MGMNT might not have been as bad as previously thought. At one point MGMNT might have tried, but your union guys probably gave MGMNT the finger enough where they eventually said F$%^ the pilots.

Why was ATN MGMNT so bad to their people??? Was it because that was their style, or was it that they got tired of dealing with the militant types over there? Things that make you go HMMMM..................

Actually you're now thinking exactly like him; 'If they wont agree to what I want I'll bend them over'.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I disagree that the pilot group was ever to blame for the poor treatment from management. You treat your employees like crap and beat them down for years with sub-standard pay and work rules while they are busting their humps for you-What did MGT expect? 97% strike vote! You don't get that from a group of guys that are militant and hard over for no reason at all.

However, fast forward to this deal and it appears the AAI MEC leadership has now decided to use the same tactic and harbor the same ill feelings towards their new employer and the pilots that outnumber them 5-1 who are also trying to put them on our CBA. So far I count at least two F-U's from the MEC. Also consider that they sent the WGAC to Dallas to negotiate for them in good faith and then promptly jerked Mr. Kelly and swapa around forcing the situation to where it is now.

We're not the enemy. Neither is SWA.

 

[dicko]

Separate operations is not a long term solution, but it does expose what SWA pilots see. The AAI group wants our contract, and their working environment is going to change with an integration into a bigger company. SWA did this, not SWAPA. The AAI preference is to insulate themselves from the affects of working for a bigger company. SWAPA pilots are already operating in the expanded environment. Commuting across country is something we already have to experience, yet AAI pilots see this basic principle of working for SWA as something that is too large of a change for them. Well the basic environment of flying for a bigger country is that the distance in geographical decisions is greater when bidding and holding a position. No matter what SWA does, the pilot group of AAI is opened up to increased variables for decision making.

You've made an interesting point. 65-70% of AirTran pilots already commute. The seniority fence in Atlanta made that number far greater.

The senior pilots who don't live in base would scrabble into the base. Pushing the junior who live in the base, out of the base. Now everybody is commuting.

The concept of the protected ATL forced;

1. SWA Mgt. into a base that was larger than financially ideal,

2. Kept SWA pilots who live there, or wanted to bid there out,

3. Forced the senior AirTran who don't live there in, and

4. Forced the junior who do live there out.

 

[Ty Webb]

You've made an interesting point. 65-70% of AirTran pilots already commute. The seniority fence in Atlanta made that number far greater.

The senior pilots who don't live in base would scrabble into the base. Pushing the junior who live in the base, out of the base. Now everybody is commuting.

The concept of the protected ATL forced;

1. SWA Mgt. into a base that was larger than financially ideal,

2. Kept SWA pilots who live there, or wanted to bid there out,

3. Forced the senior AirTran who don't live there in, and

4. Forced the junior who do live there out.

Yup. That's what many of us have been saying. There has to be a better solution for both groups than what was proposed. It doesn't have to cost any more money to the company, but the results could be less harmful to BOTH groups.

 

[WildcatFan]

I, too, get tired of hearing about the money. Money doesn't buy time at home. When you're on reserve for a decade, the money doesn't give you your life back.

When I flew corporate jets, I flew plenty of people who were worth tens or hundreds of millions. I also saw a lot of screwed up kids . . . . Kids who needed their Dad to be home more, instead of out chasing the almighty dollar.

I am assuming then that for you AT guys that since money isnt important you are willing to forgo any Captain upgrades? Why not just stay at the first job you held? The vast majority of airline pilots upgrade when they can even though it results in crushing seniority loss. I wonder why?

Another question: If SWA pilots could flip a switch and kill the enitire acquisition, call the whole thing off, we would in a heartbeat. It is a hypothetical sure, but the question is would you? You would keep what you have, go back to negotiating your sect6 and preparing for strike without having SWA "interfere." I think the answer would be telling. In fact, if GK went to your group last summer pre-buyout and granted unconditional offers of employment right to the bottom of our list many AT pilots would have left in droves.

 

[redflyer65]

Another question: If SWA pilots could flip a switch and kill the enitire acquisition, call the whole thing off, we would in a heartbeat. It is a hypothetical sure, but the question is would you? You would keep what you have, go back to negotiating your sect6 and preparing for strike without having SWA "interfere." I think the answer would be telling. In fact, if GK went to your group last summer pre-buyout and granted unconditional offers of employment right to the bottom of our list many AT pilots would have left in droves.

Ohhh, the hindsight.

But absolutely correct.

RF

 

[Just thinking]

"Isn't this what you are bringing to this so called "merger"? So your contract that you bring to this deal is a "glaring issue with SL9"?

Feeling a little entitled?"...................

That was not the intent of my response. I was responding to posts that AT pilots were gaining many of the work rules and scheduling improvements that SWA pilots working under. It seemed to me that many SWA pilots believe that SL9 was bringing their contract to the AT pilots.

I do not feel entitled.

I will patiently wait for a negotiated/mediated or arbitrated decision. Many of the things that have happened in my life have been way outside my sphere of influence. Challenges will always be around the next corner. I focus on the things that I can improve upon. I work to be productive while I am away from my family. I take care of the customers and crew. My post was an effort to bring to light some of the short comings that SL9 posed for the AT pilot group.

 

[General Lee]

When someone is using pay scales and money to justify anything in this business, I'll point to UAL/Delta/USAirways pay scales on September 10, 2001 and then point them to pay scales on August 31, 2011, and invite them to enjoy annual pay snapshots every year since then.

No dog in this fight though...

How about management payscales?


Bye Bye--General Lee