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AAI says all or nothing @MDW
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FL717
As an ATA pilot I know I speak for most if not all of us and apologize for the attitude and words of ATA737CAPT. I have never heard any of our pilots express opinions about AirTran like he did. We are all under a lot of pressure and emotions are high. Some handle it better than others. The group I've been assosiated with at ATA is a class act just as the individuals I personally know at AirTran are too.
As an ATA pilot I know I speak for most if not all of us and apologize for the attitude and words of ATA737CAPT. I have never heard any of our pilots express opinions about AirTran like he did. We are all under a lot of pressure and emotions are high. Some handle it better than others. The group I've been assosiated with at ATA is a class act just as the individuals I personally know at AirTran are too.
XGmaninGA
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2002
- Posts
- 176
Rudderdog,
Thanks for the kind words. I too am disappointed by ATA737CAPT's words. The ATA personnel I have come in contact with have all been a class act. Please understand that the decisions being made are business decisions. We line dogs have no input or influence over the decisions. We wish only the best for the ATA pilot group.
Thanks for the kind words. I too am disappointed by ATA737CAPT's words. The ATA personnel I have come in contact with have all been a class act. Please understand that the decisions being made are business decisions. We line dogs have no input or influence over the decisions. We wish only the best for the ATA pilot group.
On Your Six
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Posts
- 4,507
Don't blame AirTran for not succumbing to that bully Chicago mayor - that Daly guy is as crooked as they come (thanks for ruining Meigs Field you Jacka$$!) and someone needs to stand up to that guy. AirTran is a business and is entitled to look for the best deal possible - plain and simple. I'm tired of the ATA guys mouthing off to a very successful LCC. Guess what, we as pilots are not obligated to any position in this industry - that's the sad truth. It's all luck - nobody thought JetBlue would survive when it started up a few years ago and now it is thriving.
If you don't want to fly for AirTran, go send your resume to Virgin America, USA3000 or Transmeridian instead...
If you don't want to fly for AirTran, go send your resume to Virgin America, USA3000 or Transmeridian instead...
NZCHooverboy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2004
- Posts
- 22
Hey Six,
Which ATA guys of the 1,100 pilots are you referring to? I see that you have been furloughed, therefore, I am sure you understand the pressure that the ATA guys are going through. No one knows what is going to happen, since it is really up to the bankruptcy judge. For the more senior folks here, it appears that the Air Tran deal will offer them little if anything at all.
So try and understand that they are human beings who handle stress in different ways and that a few have lost their poise. Being relatively junior, I know that I will soon be on the street, but I do not feel that Air Tran, SWA, AWA or anyone owes me any consideration as far as employment. Alot of people here feel the same way. It would be nice, but most of the people here realize what the chances of that are. And all we can do is sit here and wait for the decisions to be made.
So relax and have a beer. I would offer you one of mine but my cat keeps hiding them. Stupid cat. I should have gotten a dog.
Which ATA guys of the 1,100 pilots are you referring to? I see that you have been furloughed, therefore, I am sure you understand the pressure that the ATA guys are going through. No one knows what is going to happen, since it is really up to the bankruptcy judge. For the more senior folks here, it appears that the Air Tran deal will offer them little if anything at all.
So try and understand that they are human beings who handle stress in different ways and that a few have lost their poise. Being relatively junior, I know that I will soon be on the street, but I do not feel that Air Tran, SWA, AWA or anyone owes me any consideration as far as employment. Alot of people here feel the same way. It would be nice, but most of the people here realize what the chances of that are. And all we can do is sit here and wait for the decisions to be made.
So relax and have a beer. I would offer you one of mine but my cat keeps hiding them. Stupid cat. I should have gotten a dog.
atafan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2003
- Posts
- 434
ATA737CAPT,
I don't know who you are but you don't represent the pilots of ATA! I have plenty of friends at AirTran and they are of the best gentlemen I know.
If I hear the "S"cab word one more time I'm going to barf on my keyboard, give it a rest already. The original AirTran was composed of mostly Eastern pilots that did not cross and I really just don't care either way anymore.
I don't know who you are but you don't represent the pilots of ATA! I have plenty of friends at AirTran and they are of the best gentlemen I know.
If I hear the "S"cab word one more time I'm going to barf on my keyboard, give it a rest already. The original AirTran was composed of mostly Eastern pilots that did not cross and I really just don't care either way anymore.
On Your Six
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Posts
- 4,507
I understand what you are saying and I know that everyone wants to look for a deal to protect their job status, but sometimes that just doesn't work out. I don't think you (collectively) should blast AirTran for looking for the best deal possible because a stronger AirTran would likely hire more pilots - and ATA pilots would probably be strong candidates for positions. Pilots who think they can force themselves onto a seniority list are most likely going to be upset at the end of the day.Wesb737fo said:
A stronger, growing AirTran would bring about more job opportunities - that is what should be considered in this case.
Six,
Once again, I don't see where ATA (collectively) is "blasting" Air Tran. I see only one post ( the above "scab" comment) that I feel was totally uncalled for. And from what I see, he is being given a cyberspace blanket party from his peers. If you see any others, point them out. We do not want to foster or perpetuate any ill will between the two pilot groups.
Movie quote
" good does not always triumph. Sometimes the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Walter Kurtz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane."
Once again, I don't see where ATA (collectively) is "blasting" Air Tran. I see only one post ( the above "scab" comment) that I feel was totally uncalled for. And from what I see, he is being given a cyberspace blanket party from his peers. If you see any others, point them out. We do not want to foster or perpetuate any ill will between the two pilot groups.
Movie quote
" good does not always triumph. Sometimes the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Walter Kurtz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane."
Curious Question
Just out of curiosity, if ATA restructures to 60% of its current size (1100 pilots), and approximately 330 pilots are let go, what would be the date of hire of the most senior individual released? Not addressing the remaining individuals and their change in seat or aircraft, I was wondering if we are talking people with 1, 2 or more years of seniority at ATA. Before the latest news, ATA was hiring a lot of pilots and I was just wondering how much seniority those individuals would lose if they were simply hired at AirTran today.
Expansion at AirTran is moving quite rapidly and forecast to continue. I was hired in June of this year and already have more than 10% junior to me. I think a proactive move on the junior ATA pilots by applying now to AirTran might minimize their loss of seniority over the long run. What was the forecast upgrade timeframe at ATA before the recent change in direction? With upgrade currently around 3 years at AirTran and forecast to go down, they could actually upgrade earlier with a company change now. I know the last few interviews at AirTran had a few ATA guys.
I feel your pain and hope no one has to endure the uncertainty you are going through. The great guys at ATA are on an emotional roller coaster, but every situation has a dark side and bright side to it. Sometimes you need to just look for the bright side and move on. Good luck to all of the ATA people, and if AirTran is in your future, the work environment and people here are great.
Just out of curiosity, if ATA restructures to 60% of its current size (1100 pilots), and approximately 330 pilots are let go, what would be the date of hire of the most senior individual released? Not addressing the remaining individuals and their change in seat or aircraft, I was wondering if we are talking people with 1, 2 or more years of seniority at ATA. Before the latest news, ATA was hiring a lot of pilots and I was just wondering how much seniority those individuals would lose if they were simply hired at AirTran today.
Expansion at AirTran is moving quite rapidly and forecast to continue. I was hired in June of this year and already have more than 10% junior to me. I think a proactive move on the junior ATA pilots by applying now to AirTran might minimize their loss of seniority over the long run. What was the forecast upgrade timeframe at ATA before the recent change in direction? With upgrade currently around 3 years at AirTran and forecast to go down, they could actually upgrade earlier with a company change now. I know the last few interviews at AirTran had a few ATA guys.
I feel your pain and hope no one has to endure the uncertainty you are going through. The great guys at ATA are on an emotional roller coaster, but every situation has a dark side and bright side to it. Sometimes you need to just look for the bright side and move on. Good luck to all of the ATA people, and if AirTran is in your future, the work environment and people here are great.
It would end up at approximately a mid 99 new hire date. However this 60% number has also been reported as possibly 50% to 30% as well which could take it as far back as the early 95 new hires. Upgrade was running about 5 1/2 years.
Like you said, the more junior guys have a less bitter pill to swallow if they cut their loses and bail out early. However it's never easy. There is still the possiblity of going with airplanes somewhere. I don't know which would be worse, losing seniority at a new company by hanging around waiting for that, or cutting your losses at ATA only to find out everyone that stayed got some kind of seniority/ longevity/ pay protections to whomever buys the parts of ATA.
Needless to say the whole situation is sucks.
BTW ATA737CAPT owes some people an apology
Like you said, the more junior guys have a less bitter pill to swallow if they cut their loses and bail out early. However it's never easy. There is still the possiblity of going with airplanes somewhere. I don't know which would be worse, losing seniority at a new company by hanging around waiting for that, or cutting your losses at ATA only to find out everyone that stayed got some kind of seniority/ longevity/ pay protections to whomever buys the parts of ATA.
Needless to say the whole situation is sucks.
BTW ATA737CAPT owes some people an apology
Wow... I just returned from my 3 day trip... thought I'd see what was on the board. Well... interesting and painful to say the least !
First, understandably it would be hard for ATA fellas to fly AirTran flights (codeshare). Especially with AAI having the full intent to phase out codeshare flying in MDW as AAI grows the operation. I know I wasnt extremely happy watching Ryan and Miami Air fly our stuff...But it was a good deal to grow the airline while we built our equipment and pilot side.. Much different situation with using the fine folks and equipment from ATA...?? No the flying is not different... but the emotional side is extremely more toxic.
Second, There will be no merger of lists,fences bla bla bla... period. Sorry... Codeshare to keep ATA operating is best for both carriers.
Preferential hiring is probably the best we will see.. So... dont wait.. get in line for an interview folks.. Cut your losses and get a no. before more USAir, TWA, United, Emery, Military and numerous hard working underpaid commuter dudes get a no. ahead of you... again... sorry... I would enjoy flying with any or all who would like to change tail colors and get over the grievance period....
Emotional yes... But dont let your emotion rule things that neither of our pilot groups' really have no control over... especially in todays environment.. I have NEVER heard an AirTran pilot say anything negative towards ATA... Good Group and we would love to have the fine folks come over and grow the airline with a new 'clock number'. Great place to work. Good folks....Safe pilots. Choose your colors boys.. Palm Tree or Penny Pincher green... Either one is good. Just decide and work hard for the one you choose... should you choose wrong.... well.... tough luck.... I dont think the 15 year dude from USAir the other day expected to get integrated into our list because we picked up their old gates in BWI .. Good Luck to all.... excellent discourse.
First, understandably it would be hard for ATA fellas to fly AirTran flights (codeshare). Especially with AAI having the full intent to phase out codeshare flying in MDW as AAI grows the operation. I know I wasnt extremely happy watching Ryan and Miami Air fly our stuff...But it was a good deal to grow the airline while we built our equipment and pilot side.. Much different situation with using the fine folks and equipment from ATA...?? No the flying is not different... but the emotional side is extremely more toxic.
Second, There will be no merger of lists,fences bla bla bla... period. Sorry... Codeshare to keep ATA operating is best for both carriers.
Preferential hiring is probably the best we will see.. So... dont wait.. get in line for an interview folks.. Cut your losses and get a no. before more USAir, TWA, United, Emery, Military and numerous hard working underpaid commuter dudes get a no. ahead of you... again... sorry... I would enjoy flying with any or all who would like to change tail colors and get over the grievance period....
Emotional yes... But dont let your emotion rule things that neither of our pilot groups' really have no control over... especially in todays environment.. I have NEVER heard an AirTran pilot say anything negative towards ATA... Good Group and we would love to have the fine folks come over and grow the airline with a new 'clock number'. Great place to work. Good folks....Safe pilots. Choose your colors boys.. Palm Tree or Penny Pincher green... Either one is good. Just decide and work hard for the one you choose... should you choose wrong.... well.... tough luck.... I dont think the 15 year dude from USAir the other day expected to get integrated into our list because we picked up their old gates in BWI .. Good Luck to all.... excellent discourse.
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