AAI Pilots Beware!!

[johnsonrod]

Ty,

It doesn't make any difference that your carrier was profitable. The fact is that your carrier was for sale and Gary has decided to buy it. Now it's up to our unions and lawyers to work out what happens to you and I.

It's undeniable that every Airtran pilot WILL have a monumental bump in career expectations. Expectations is money Ty, not from what seat you earn the money. It is also undeniable that by adding you guys to our list "you" are clogging up our growth and in essence taking our upgrade seats from our pilots.

I have no problem giving you guys some sort of integration into our list but my opening bid assumes that you actually understand the career bump you just got.

Do you?

Gup

You also mean "arbitrators" will work out what happens, right? You Southwest guys like to leave that part out. It is the unknown, someone impartial who will look at the actual story and render a decision. That makes you guys poop your pants just thinking about it.

 

[RedDogC130]

You also mean "arbitrators" will work out what happens, right? You Southwest guys like to leave that part out. It is the unknown, someone impartial who will look at the actual story and render a decision. That makes you guys poop your pants just thinking about it.

I for one feel we would do just fine with an arbitrator. It all comes down to the facts of an argument. I feel our facts supported in an argument will be good

 

[johnsonrod]

From an objective standpoint, it is harder to get hired at SWA. Our hiring minimums are double yours. That's not flame, just facts. As for the 200ish guys that got hired here and left AAI, that number doesn't include the ones that either A) didn't get hired after 1,2, even 3 attempts and 2) (& more importantly) the number of AAI F/Os (and present CA's, when they were F/Os) that didn't have the minimums to even apply to SWA. Hiring minimums do qualify objectively as a "which job is harder to get" argument, btw. And it is relevant, because it explains why your group is approx. 5 yrs younger on average than our group, which is why it will be included in the arbitration decision, imo.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

Was that a part of the Delta and NWA SLI arbitration? Delta has always had that crazy psych test. Did the arbitrators take that into consideration? I doubt it. The arbitrators will look at what each airline brings to the table, and then decide on something that is fair. I heard once that Southwest has a lot of Blue Angels and Thunderbirds flying for them. Does that mean the arbitrators should staple the Airtran guys because of that? Big deal. You SWA pilots had better look into recent SLIs and see what the arbitrators looked at. I think a lot of it is online. Do it.

 

[johnsonrod]

I for one feel we would do just fine with an arbitrator. It all comes down to the facts of an argument. I feel our facts supported in an argument will be good

Good. Finally a SWA pilot who thinks the arbitration process will work. You are right, the lawyers bring the arguments, the arbitrators hear them, and give a decision. That is how it all works. Thanks for bringing back some sanity.

 

[GuppyWN]

You also mean "arbitrators" will work out what happens, right? You Southwest guys like to leave that part out. It is the unknown, someone impartial who will look at the actual story and render a decision. That makes you guys poop your pants just thinking about it.

If you think I am afraid of an arbitrator you are sorely mistaken.

Matter of fact I think we'd do better with an arbitrator than with our own pilots voting on Airtrans future.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

And another thing.

Look at the arguments. Airtran guys want relative. What do they have to back that up? What can they "give" to make their lawyer backed argument worthwhile?

Now look at the WN guys and what we have to use in our arguments.

I actually HOPE for an arbitrator. I am 100% confident that a panel of arbitrators will understand the disparity in what each group brings.

Gup

 

[ivauir]

GK and his crew came to BF, knocked on the door and asked politely to buy airtran.

Actually, BF approached GK at least 6 times asking for the white hat routine ..

 

[RedDogC130]

And another thing.

Look at the arguments. Airtran guys want relative. What do they have to back that up? What can they "give" to make their lawyer backed argument worthwhile?

Now look at the WN guys and what we have to use in our arguments.

I actually HOPE for an arbitrator. I am 100% confident that a panel of arbitrators will understand the disparity in what each group brings.

Gup

Gup,

I am with you 100%. If you put every aspect into a quantitative measure.. ie.. career expectations which if precedent is used equals career earnings potential (not which window you look out of)...then SWA wins...if it is used for sced flexibility/QOL....SWA wins again...on and on....SWA wins. Numbers will have to be used to back up these arguments...and when then they put numbers to these things...SWA wins.

Airtran people have yet to make a valid argument except for I am a Captain hear me roar....I want my seat. I will roll with an arbitrator panel of 3 any day of the week.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

If you think I am afraid of an arbitrator you are sorely mistaken.

Matter of fact I think we'd do better with an arbitrator than with our own pilots voting on Airtrans future.

Gup

Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.
And as far as what's fair.....I'm sure you'll find 8000 arguments as to what's fair.

 

[RedDogC130]

Scope...

I think the correct term per B/M FAIR AND EQUITABLE

 

[funnyman12]

Question for the SWA guys. I have been at airtran 4 years and have 21% of the pilot group below me. I could survive 2 10% furloughs. If we got DOH I would have 11% of the combined list below me. A staple would yield a whopping 4% below me. Many will argue that SW has never furloughed. 1st question....if a situation come where SW was considering a furlough, what motivation would SW guys have to protect the airtran guys? I would guess very little. I would imagine an arbitrator would be looking at that. The reason for the "fair and equitable" thing is to prevent that. One million dollar salary mean nothing if im in the street. My understanding is that since SW is the acquirer none of the SW pilot should be negatively affected. If the airline has 6000 pilots and plans 10% growth, as an arbitrary number, or 8000 pilots there should be no difference in career expectations. On top of that Gary Kelly has said without Airtran zero growth for 2 years. Airtran pilots will probably lose a little relative seniority but not enough to increase the potential of airtran pilots on the street, whom without the merger would have kept their jobs in the event of extreme financial turmoil. Airtran is more healthy now than during the 2008 fuel spike.

 

[GuppyWN]

funnyman12,

Two things.

1. Airtran furloughed a couple hundred of your OWN pilots without regard of where their next meal was going to come from.

2. Gary Kelly has stated that he intends to grow after the acquisition. The furlough fodder will come in behind you. Every guy on the bottom of the list is worried about being furloughed. Does it stop them from taking the job?

What you guys don't get is this. We should have furloughed after 9/11. We were flying jets around with more crewmembers than passengers. We didn't furlough. We could have furloughed last winter when the economy really tanked. SWA paid the pilot contractual guarantee for 3 straight months so they wouldn't furlough.

Quit thinking about what your management would do and start realizing what our management DOES.

Gup

 

[funnyman12]

After AA/TWA the new law in the RLA came to be. I would imagine an arbitrator would be looking T those implications and apply them to this merger. I would guarantee that 6000 SWA pilots would be opposed to getting paid guarantee to keep a few hundred airtran guys on property. An arbitrator knows that.....aka TWA. BTW we furloughed 169 pilots not a couple hundred. Your pay rates mean nothing if 800 airtran pilots were without work due to a staple. There is a way to merge the lists where no SWA pilot is affected negatively and the airtran pilots gets fair shake. It will be fair and many of the FI guys on here will be upset.

 

[GuppyWN]

I would guarantee that 6000 SWA pilots would be opposed to getting paid guarantee to keep a few hundred airtran guys on property.

I guarantee you don't know this pilot group.

Once you're on property you are my brother and I will go to the mat for you. I am not alone.

Gup

 

[funnyman12]

I hope you are correct and thank you for that. An arbitrator will look at history and find examples of that not being the case with a majority of other airlines. I understand the great culture SW had but proving that a bad SLI for airtran would not result in TWA esk situation would be hard to prove. The courtroom will most likely not consider the great culture at SW as a justification for an unfair SLI. The law was passed for a reason....to prevent, at any merger/acquisition, a repeat of the TWA scenario. TWA was in bankruptcy and the law still came to be.