AAI offer extended (again)

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Better trainied....? Care to quantify that little pearl of wisdom junior.

Ever heard of sarcasm Francis?

 

[Critter717]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

I would say there is no substitute for experience. Pick any city we serve and lets do a round trip with no auto throttles, auto pilot and no flight director. I don't give a crap what kind of "product" comes from Riddle or anywhere else. Time in the seat is invaluable. Let's not confuse the autopilot with flying skills. My neighbors 10 year old could fly the 717 via the FCP.

I started at $25.00 an hour on the DC-9. I was able to hold Captain after 2 years. To the guys who are whining about upgrade and pay, take a step back, look around the industry. When you find the biggest turd out there with the lowest pay and crappy airplanes, send in your resume immediately. Wait 7 years and see how it turns out. That is exactly what happened for alot of us.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Cant wait to hear 200 hour wonder pilot telling you how great they are.:smash:

 

[FlyWolf]

Pick any city we serve and lets do a round trip with no auto throttles, auto pilot and no flight director.

No autopilot/ no auto throttle, thats very scary, I would declare an emergency immediately.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Ever heard of sarcasm Francis?

As a matter of fact I have Mary.

Thing is, the litte fairy may actually think that way. If so I thought I would give her a chance to dazzle us all with some examples from her extensive experiences flying with military pilots.

Either way, I'm not sure I see where it concerns you. Shouldn't you be out saving the skinnies?

 

[Murphy]

I started at $25.00 an hour on the DC-9. I was able to hold Captain after 2 years. To the guys who are whining about upgrade and pay, take a step back, look around the industry. When you find the biggest turd out there with the lowest pay and crappy airplanes, send in your resume immediately. Wait 7 years and see how it turns out. That is exactly what happened for alot of us.

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

What he said...

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

:beer:

 

[Critter717]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

Cool...I will. Slow and steady wins the race.

I'll take my 140k a year, 16 to 18 days off and think about your advice. Another 5 or 10 bucks an hour is meaningless.

If they present an agreement that shows full automation of scheduling via Flica ( I don't ever want to HAVE to fax another sheet of paper to orlando), an increase in the company retirement contribution 11-12%, reduced health care costs, and no change in the duty day....im gonna have a hard time not voting for it. Unless you can cough up specific information about RJ flying that will remain a mystery until the NPA produces a document. I have no desire to fly an RJ...no offense.

Im part of the same group of guys that refused to sell out the new hires after 9/11. If you want it all now...then you should consider moving on to a carrier that will assume some responsiblity for your happiness.

 

[Lear70]

Unless you can cough up specific information about RJ flying that will remain a mystery until the NPA produces a document. I have no desire to fly an RJ...no offense.

OK, I will...

This is the information the MEC isn't sharing with you because they know that the company REALLY, REALLY WANTS RJ's in our future and they know that more than likely any T.A. that gets approved this round will probably include a provision to outsource even more RJ's than the current agreement allows:

Bombardier has already started production on a 100-seat jet. Embraer already has one out there. What do you think is going to replace the 717? What do you think should be on the smaller airport routes out west as we expand? Airports such as Aspen, CO, Boseman, MT, Coeur de Lane, ID, etc, etc?

Embraer GUARANTEES their hourly operating cost of their aircraft, and pays the difference if you go over that cost (hint: it's lower than the 717's operating cost and some claim is the same or lower than the 737 on short stage lengths). What management team could pass that up?

So look forward a few years: AirTran can't get a deal for more cheap Boeings, so they look for another airframe to expand and feed the hubs in ATL and MKE. What can we use that's as cheap as the 737 to operate on a seat-mile basis?

But wait,,, we've farmed those out. Now we at AirTran stagnate while our growth goes to RJ's. Is that what you really want? The major carriers have suffered by ever letting SCOPE get away from them. Are we REALLY going to make the same mistake?

THINK about what you said (I don't care as long as I still get my paycheck). Doesn't that sound suspiciously like the NWA/DAL arguments allowing RJ's to go to other carriers a decade or more back? And look where it got them...

THAT'S why ANY T.A. that comes out with a relaxed SCOPE clause gets my immediate NO vote, regardless of Section 4. What does pay matter when they can grow you right out of a seat... or a JOB??!!

Im part of the same group of guys that refused to sell out the new hires after 9/11. If you want it all now...then you should consider moving on to a carrier that will assume some responsiblity for your happiness.

He never said he wanted it all now. He said he wants this airline to REALLY BECOME a major airline, not just another ATA/Sun Country that happens to have Major airline cash flow, and he won't sign an agreement that doesn't recognize that.

If you think back, I bet his thoughts sound a lot like YOURS did during the last contract negotiations... you might have more in common than you think.

Just a thought. :beer: