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AAA EMB190 Arbitration Award
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erjdude said:
It doesnt matter what you "had". It's what you have going in...
You're right. I would have been recalled to the bottom of the list and then move up that list as retirements happened. At age 60 I would have held a 767 CA slot.
I have a retirement list from both carriers. Of course AWA has retirements coming up. But not even close to the numbers of AAA.
Hey erjdude you wrote:
first of all it is bull#$it what has happened to all the furloughed east guys, particularly someone like you hired in 1989. It is not fair that you have that kind of longevity are furloughed. I am just curious, if aaa had not become lcc then when the recall finally happened what would your longevity have gotten you? Would have been able jump ahead of hundreds or thousands pilots not on furlough? and if so would that not be a windfall? If, if if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.
Deal in present day reality and what is known.
You and your friends have suffered mightily for many years. You did not deserve any of this and i hope you are given the chance to get at least some of it back before it is to late. Thanks, that is why I want credit for all AAA retirements
applied against the AAA furloughed exclusively. But people in Hell want ice water and an arbitrator will probably decide.
However I worked for a growing relitively stable company Doug P. might disagree on your stability and longevity before this merger. we had 1800 pilots with hiring of 300 a year predicted for several years(we were to recieve 22 airplanes 2006-2008, allready on order). and I was going to be a CA in 5 years once, so what? Yes we do bring pilots to the list but we also bring 140 airplanes. so it all evens out in the wash.
Furloughed pilots should not go ahead of active pilots. But they might and they might not. Remember we will be dealing with an arbitrator not wishful thinking. You would not have gotten that had the merger not happened. But the merger did happen didn't it? you had no career expectations or quality of life Apparently I did all along and even I did not realize it until recently. and it would be a windfall. And I will take this so called windfall as you selfishly define it just like you or anybody else. I have something even better that has not changed unlike "career expectations," a seniority number, and recall rights. Unless our AAA MEC trades it for Fruit Rollups in the crewmeals or something equally worthless which would not surprise me.
So you have that to your advantage in this.
P.S. guys like carl and itsallgood are just the 2%at any pilot group. You will find the vast majority of us great to fly with regardless of which seat either one us ends up in. I have heard the same about your group. I am sure there are plenty of great guys there like yourself.
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You will not resign in protest if I get stapled, and I won't refuse recall if we received straight DOH and neither would anybody else. I think you got a windfall in this E190 arbitration and you think you got screwed and the beat goes on.
Do I think my DOH should somehow be weakened, no way. Do I think an AWA
guy should hit the street upon my return, of course not. But when the next downturn happens, guess what, if it goes my way your out, I am in. It has happened here at AAA when we did the Shuttle integration and we have the same arbitrator George N. potentionally sorting through this merger integration. I respect you wanting the best deal for yourself and of course I do to. We will find out what happens next spring. Nice problem for us both to have huh? An airline to work for? For now anyway, lets hope it keeps going strong.
Cheers
first of all it is bull#$it what has happened to all the furloughed east guys, particularly someone like you hired in 1989. It is not fair that you have that kind of longevity are furloughed. I am just curious, if aaa had not become lcc then when the recall finally happened what would your longevity have gotten you? Would have been able jump ahead of hundreds or thousands pilots not on furlough? and if so would that not be a windfall? If, if if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.
Deal in present day reality and what is known.
You and your friends have suffered mightily for many years. You did not deserve any of this and i hope you are given the chance to get at least some of it back before it is to late. Thanks, that is why I want credit for all AAA retirements
applied against the AAA furloughed exclusively. But people in Hell want ice water and an arbitrator will probably decide.
However I worked for a growing relitively stable company Doug P. might disagree on your stability and longevity before this merger. we had 1800 pilots with hiring of 300 a year predicted for several years(we were to recieve 22 airplanes 2006-2008, allready on order). and I was going to be a CA in 5 years once, so what? Yes we do bring pilots to the list but we also bring 140 airplanes. so it all evens out in the wash.
Furloughed pilots should not go ahead of active pilots. But they might and they might not. Remember we will be dealing with an arbitrator not wishful thinking. You would not have gotten that had the merger not happened. But the merger did happen didn't it? you had no career expectations or quality of life Apparently I did all along and even I did not realize it until recently. and it would be a windfall. And I will take this so called windfall as you selfishly define it just like you or anybody else. I have something even better that has not changed unlike "career expectations," a seniority number, and recall rights. Unless our AAA MEC trades it for Fruit Rollups in the crewmeals or something equally worthless which would not surprise me.
So you have that to your advantage in this.
P.S. guys like carl and itsallgood are just the 2%at any pilot group. You will find the vast majority of us great to fly with regardless of which seat either one us ends up in. I have heard the same about your group. I am sure there are plenty of great guys there like yourself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will not resign in protest if I get stapled, and I won't refuse recall if we received straight DOH and neither would anybody else. I think you got a windfall in this E190 arbitration and you think you got screwed and the beat goes on.
Do I think my DOH should somehow be weakened, no way. Do I think an AWA
guy should hit the street upon my return, of course not. But when the next downturn happens, guess what, if it goes my way your out, I am in. It has happened here at AAA when we did the Shuttle integration and we have the same arbitrator George N. potentionally sorting through this merger integration. I respect you wanting the best deal for yourself and of course I do to. We will find out what happens next spring. Nice problem for us both to have huh? An airline to work for? For now anyway, lets hope it keeps going strong.
Cheers
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abefly said:
Mississippi Valley Airlines merged with Air Wisconsin in 1985. The furloughed AW guys were integrated into the list as if they were active.
For a more closely related merger, take a look at Pan Am/National. Furloughees got credit for longevity.
There may be other's, but these are the only 2 I could find.
Itsallsogood
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JetMonkey
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ALGFLYR said:
The clip I found makes it look more like an aquisition.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E3DF133BF933A05752C0A963948260
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ALGFLYR said:
Thanks Jet Monkey - the entire AW list was used because they were the ACQUIRING carrier. i.e. they got the upper hand.
Please note FURLOFlyer - USAIRWays was NOT the acquiring carrier.
HQ is in Tempe, DP is the CEO, and the new callsign is CACTUS. Not Cactus's, USAIR, or USAIR's.
.
Doug Parker said:
Upper hand? Thanks I needed the laugh. So AWA aquired US Air? How much did AWA pay to aquire us? Yes HQ is in Tempe, and DP is the CEO, but the name on the side of YOUR aircraft says US Airways. Wonder why they didn't want to keep the America West name? BTW, we still use the US Air callsign.
Cheers... FURLOFlyer... (liked that one too)
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xanderman
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ya know what?
Guys! We had better stop pissin' amd moanin' about the list! DP and the boys in the "Tempe Tombstone" (Thanks PHXFLYR) are going to screw us all. Section 6!!! No way! That just means the east folk will continue to drown in their crappy contract until 2009 and we will watch all of our awa flying go east! It's already happening! CAN YOU SAY B-SCALE???? Regardless of what your opinion is we must find a way to work together to get a contract we deserve. Do I really have to recite the ole' "divided we fall" mantra?
Let the arbitraitor decide... Let's focus on becoming a unified pilot group and insure we get what we deserve...
Andy
P.S. atleast the east MEC has some gumption to voice their opinion (PHL picketing)
Guys! We had better stop pissin' amd moanin' about the list! DP and the boys in the "Tempe Tombstone" (Thanks PHXFLYR) are going to screw us all. Section 6!!! No way! That just means the east folk will continue to drown in their crappy contract until 2009 and we will watch all of our awa flying go east! It's already happening! CAN YOU SAY B-SCALE???? Regardless of what your opinion is we must find a way to work together to get a contract we deserve. Do I really have to recite the ole' "divided we fall" mantra?
Let the arbitraitor decide... Let's focus on becoming a unified pilot group and insure we get what we deserve...
Andy
P.S. atleast the east MEC has some gumption to voice their opinion (PHL picketing)
GOTAFLY said:
Every mainline pilot was offered a position at MDA. If we did not have a flow in place, they would have staffed the 170 off the street because there were no more furloughed pilots wanting the positions. We will soon see US Airways hiring off the street for the 190 and we will still have pilots on furlough since they can turn down the 190 FO position indefinitely. Will those new-hires be looked upon as not being "real" pilots since there will be others still on furlough?
I agree. I have never attacked anyone on the board. I have only tried to pass along info that may not be available to others that visit this forum. But, if someone attacks me, I will definitely voice my opinion back.
xanderman said:
Excellent post Xanderman... We should all accept the fact the AAA needs AWA and AWA needs AAA. We could complain all day long about what should happen with the seniority list but it is all up to the arbitrator. Also, DP seems to still be discussing possible other merges with another airline, so this saga could continue for a while.
Both groups need to come together and negotiate the best contract for East as well as West.
Safety in numbers...management will love to see us hate each other let's prove them wrong.
Fly safe!!
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xanderman
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....
West guys are pissed. East guys are pissed. How about US Airways pilots pissed at management? I am not saying let do the scorched earth or anything but our focus should be on mngmt. I am an AWA guy and I believe the whole 190 award had more to do with the fact that mngmt wanted a no cost, no training award. And what-do-ya-know DP gets an award that says no awa pilot can bid the 190 until the list is merged. Interesting thing about that is the fact that I'm positive DP will insist on a no bump, no flush bid program for some time. So if all the 190 slots are filled then it will cost him nothing. No movement if any at all. I do not blame the east guys. I blame DP and the boys AND our MEC.
Andy
Cost neutral = neutral effort. "you get what you negotiate." D. Parker
West guys are pissed. East guys are pissed. How about US Airways pilots pissed at management? I am not saying let do the scorched earth or anything but our focus should be on mngmt. I am an AWA guy and I believe the whole 190 award had more to do with the fact that mngmt wanted a no cost, no training award. And what-do-ya-know DP gets an award that says no awa pilot can bid the 190 until the list is merged. Interesting thing about that is the fact that I'm positive DP will insist on a no bump, no flush bid program for some time. So if all the 190 slots are filled then it will cost him nothing. No movement if any at all. I do not blame the east guys. I blame DP and the boys AND our MEC.
Andy
Cost neutral = neutral effort. "you get what you negotiate." D. Parker
joevollers
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Sig
2017
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ALGFLYR said:
"Hypocrite" is spelled "hypocrite." You need to establish your arguments with something beyond authenticity; they need to be non-unique. In other words, you're compaining about mainline keeping you down by manipulating a flow through and how atrocious that was- the whole while advocating or just declaring that the flowthrough list that you and I occupy is now null and void as far as it concerns me.
Look at what you've become and how quickly you've forgotten.
Sig said:
Where have you seen me complaining about ML keeping me down? You must be thinking about someone else. I would like to see the flow re-instated, that's the way it was supposed to be when I came over. But we should have been able to come back. That didn't happen and now it's over. Not my fault. If they would make us whole, I would welcome the re-insertion of the ghost numbers....
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