AA to hire in 2003!

[whizVFA201]

Our chief pilot said that AA plans to hire in 2003 and to have everbody (including my furloughed as*) back within the year.
Once the NMB declares us a single carrier with TWA they'll also recall the 209 guys who were furloughed out of order.
He also said our March loads are above what they predicted (he said loads...).
With UAL recalling a bunch of F/A's next month I think things are starting to turn around.
But we're also in contract talks and there are thoughts that we'll be used as "chips" by both sides.
Should be an interesting spring.
Whiz

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Dude, I hope you are right. BUT, where did you get your intel.? Are you one of the 209 or below that. I say again, Dude, I hope you are right.

 

[whizVFA201]

CAPT Kudwa spoke at a "town hall meeting" out on the west coast last week. Direct quotes.
I'm below that 209 but just below.

 

[ex nav]

rest of the story??

To add on to Herk's enlighting post:

-----
Recall Rumors

Q: Okay, I've heard this rumor from 3 different sources now. Will we be recalling pilots in March or April? The numbers I've heard are 50 to 200 and mostly from DFW. Is this true?

A: Sorry. No truth to the rumor. We have no room to train recalls at this point. We are in the process of training 450 B727 pilots on other equipment. We expect it will take until June or July to complete this.

----

So with Herk's math in public (good job) and a (optimistic) recall in July, hiring could start in 2003 for a class date in Jan 04.

Just to add my 2 cents...

 

[Mil-BushPilot]

Prior to Sep 11 wasn't AA hiring/ training 100+ a month? Even at 100/mo it would still take a year to retrain the furloughees though.

Mil Pilot

 

[madison2]

Mil pilot,
You assume that they didn't cut the training department back? I know they have been reduced in numbers, by how much who knows?

 

[SF3CA]

Another monkey wrench in this problem is that there are about 300-400 Eagle pilots, most with sen #'s that are senior to the AA and TWA furloughed pilots. Nobody knows if they are going to recall the AA pilots in true seniority order, which means the Eagle pilots first, or if they are going to recall everyone that was on property first. The Flow thru agreement says that when a pilots transfers to AA, they will be offered one out of every two new hire positions. We have been hearing that ALPA's interpertation of that is that 1/2 is a floor not a ceiling therefore all the new hire classes in the near furture could be all Eagle pilots (untill we run out of jet captains waiting to flow).

Another thing: The AA pilots that flowed back have no seat lock at Eagle. However I don't think that AMR would train them just to see them go back to AA in a few months. AMR is going to get their money out of these guys. I think they will be at Eagle for at least 14 months or more. JMO

good luck,

SF3CA

 

[whizVFA201]

Herk/Ex Nav:
Good posts... But remeber where you got that info: "Ask and Avoid".
Also AA can train as many pilots as they want. They were training 100 new hires a month, along with all the recurrent, upgrade and transition folks before our enlightened Arab brothers paid us a visit. The school house was burning the midnight oil. Saying they can only train 50 a month is a stretch. And even if they cut the training department all they need to do is recall the folks they let go. I don't think the sim instructor job market phone is rininging off the hook so it shouldn't be too hard to recall.

And even though the integration deal reads like a Rubbick's Cube I thought that the TWABs can only be recalled to St. Louis for now and that AA furloughees recalled wouldn't be training in St. Louis.
Talking with some union guys recently it sounds like the furloughed group will be used by both sides during these negotiations as a big poker chip.
"We'd love to recall everybody if only the APA would do ______"
Or "Sure you can fly all the RJ's you want if you recall everybody and ___________"

So while things certainly look better than they did a couple of months ago, I'm expecting a long haul and hope to be pleasantly surprised if it's shorter. The fact that the recall rumors are beginning to fly are good; we could be at UAL where the rumors are going the other way, by the thousands.

Hope I get activated to Key West for a year,
Whiz
American furlough, patriot, organ donor

 

[PHX767]

The 50/month training flow is optimistic at best. Our systems instructors are not all going to be coming back to training. Their skill sets make them qualified for many other technical jobs, not just in training, and not just in aviation.

The APA furlough hotline mentioned the "208" a few times last week, and had me thinking WTF? Then I remembered we lost a guy in the 3/12 class. I still think they should refer to us as the "209" just out of respect for him.

 

[bayoubandit]

SF3CA

I had read some stuff from either APA or AA that said the Eagle flow throughs will not come over until all of the AA guys and gals who were on property are recalled. I don't if it is going to take AA hiring again for those with Eagle folks with AA numbers to flow through or not, but I imagine it would.

On another note, does anyone know how many flowbacks have actually been trained and are online?

Historically at AA, haven't the furloughs been held hostage for contract negotiations? That's how the whole B scale thing got started. It pretty much shows are fate. Let's hope it's different this time.

 

[whizVFA201]

Herk Bubba,

All good points but the point I was trying to make is that an airline can train as many people as they want/need. Period. At the height of the Fed Ex hiring a year or two ago they were sending folks to USAir sims in PA and other places because there wasn't room in MEM. Do all the math you want but it comes down to what the man wants to do. If they need folks they'll find a way to train them. They were going to send my FDX new hire class to UAL in Denver for our sims but we ended up in MEM on the grave yard sked. Got us acclimated for the line I guess.

Having said that, I also agree that it'll be awhile and that they'll probably do a gentlemanly (-1 sp?) pace of 50 or so. And throw in contract talks and you have a potential hostage situation.

You also right about the bottom line. I'd rather be on furlough longer and come back to a stronger company with a great contract than get recalled and have the threat of more trouble on the horizon. I'm currently sucking on the reserve tit for all it's worth so I can say that . For others that are out there selling burial insurance (no kidding...a UAL buddy on furlough), I hope it's shorter.

Whiz

 

[TWA Dude]

And even though the integration deal reads like a Rubbick's Cube I thought that the TWABs can only be recalled to St. Louis for now and that AA furloughees recalled wouldn't be training in St. Louis.

First of all, any ex-TWA recalls won't happen until well after single carrier status, in which ALL recalls will bid into system vacancies where ever they may be. In other words, ex-TWA recalls almost certainly won't be to STL since there aren't likely to be any vacancies here for a long while. For that reason and also for the necessity of training AA recalls in TWA op-specs there won't be any AA guys recalled to STL. However, Supplement CC does allow for any ex TWA pilots outside of the STL fence to bid back in and retain their relative seniority there.

Next, for those uninformed whizVFA201 chose to use the term "TWABs" to refer to ex TWA pilots, which stands for "TWA SCABS". Why he chose such an inflammatory, derogatory, ignorant, mean-spirited and irrelevant-to-this-discussion term I cannot fathom. To my knowledge there are no scab pilots at TWA as there's been no pilot strikes here in recent memory.

Well, whizVFA201, what say you?

 

[whizVFA201]

EX TWA Dude:

You're right ...no need to throw names around and I apologize if I offended you.

I won't even begin to discuss the issues with regards to our integration. You can start a thread if you'd like...and it'll be here after we're both dead.

Suffice it to say that no party will ever be happy with it. Maybe Rodney King can be the head of our union.

One big hAAppy fAAmily,
Whiz

 

[ex nav]

Amen to that

Being a furloughed new hire (& military retiree, now back on active duty for a while since my state won't give me unemployment) I am forever junior to most of the AA furloghees and all of the TWA furloughees. I just want one thing....my job back just as soon as possible. Anything else just doesn't matter.

In fact most of this bickering seems counterproductive but understandable. After 21+ years in the military I have learned that when people STOP complaining is when you really have to worry about them because it means that they have given up hope.

Well, I second Herks thoughts that we all need to get along for the best interest of the airline. Here's to a bright furture and to hoping we ALL get back to work soonest...

 

[mos-def]

quick question. as a guy hired after 4/10 is there the possibility that i can be recalled prior to the twa guys. for instance if the twa guys can only be hired into stl and aa is needs people outside of stl can i be recalled into the 'AA' system with twa guys still on furlough since stl will be 'maxed out'?