AA to hire in 2003!

[whizVFA201]

Herk Bubba,

All good points but the point I was trying to make is that an airline can train as many people as they want/need. Period. At the height of the Fed Ex hiring a year or two ago they were sending folks to USAir sims in PA and other places because there wasn't room in MEM. Do all the math you want but it comes down to what the man wants to do. If they need folks they'll find a way to train them. They were going to send my FDX new hire class to UAL in Denver for our sims but we ended up in MEM on the grave yard sked. Got us acclimated for the line I guess.

Having said that, I also agree that it'll be awhile and that they'll probably do a gentlemanly (-1 sp?) pace of 50 or so. And throw in contract talks and you have a potential hostage situation.

You also right about the bottom line. I'd rather be on furlough longer and come back to a stronger company with a great contract than get recalled and have the threat of more trouble on the horizon. I'm currently sucking on the reserve tit for all it's worth so I can say that . For others that are out there selling burial insurance (no kidding...a UAL buddy on furlough), I hope it's shorter.

Whiz

 

[TWA Dude]

And even though the integration deal reads like a Rubbick's Cube I thought that the TWABs can only be recalled to St. Louis for now and that AA furloughees recalled wouldn't be training in St. Louis.

First of all, any ex-TWA recalls won't happen until well after single carrier status, in which ALL recalls will bid into system vacancies where ever they may be. In other words, ex-TWA recalls almost certainly won't be to STL since there aren't likely to be any vacancies here for a long while. For that reason and also for the necessity of training AA recalls in TWA op-specs there won't be any AA guys recalled to STL. However, Supplement CC does allow for any ex TWA pilots outside of the STL fence to bid back in and retain their relative seniority there.

Next, for those uninformed whizVFA201 chose to use the term "TWABs" to refer to ex TWA pilots, which stands for "TWA SCABS". Why he chose such an inflammatory, derogatory, ignorant, mean-spirited and irrelevant-to-this-discussion term I cannot fathom. To my knowledge there are no scab pilots at TWA as there's been no pilot strikes here in recent memory.

Well, whizVFA201, what say you?

 

[whizVFA201]

EX TWA Dude:

You're right ...no need to throw names around and I apologize if I offended you.

I won't even begin to discuss the issues with regards to our integration. You can start a thread if you'd like...and it'll be here after we're both dead.

Suffice it to say that no party will ever be happy with it. Maybe Rodney King can be the head of our union.

One big hAAppy fAAmily,
Whiz

 

[ex nav]

Amen to that

Being a furloughed new hire (& military retiree, now back on active duty for a while since my state won't give me unemployment) I am forever junior to most of the AA furloghees and all of the TWA furloughees. I just want one thing....my job back just as soon as possible. Anything else just doesn't matter.

In fact most of this bickering seems counterproductive but understandable. After 21+ years in the military I have learned that when people STOP complaining is when you really have to worry about them because it means that they have given up hope.

Well, I second Herks thoughts that we all need to get along for the best interest of the airline. Here's to a bright furture and to hoping we ALL get back to work soonest...

 

[mos-def]

quick question. as a guy hired after 4/10 is there the possibility that i can be recalled prior to the twa guys. for instance if the twa guys can only be hired into stl and aa is needs people outside of stl can i be recalled into the 'AA' system with twa guys still on furlough since stl will be 'maxed out'?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Thanks Herc and Whiz for your understanding. When I read Whiz's "TWAB" statement, it kind of got to me a little but I let it go. I don't think that everyone involved always stops to think about what the other group is actually like. I, myself, am furloughed (the state of MO is currently paying me $250 per week to watch my two year old) and we are expecting another one in a few months. I came to work at TW 2 years ago. I went to work (loved every minute of it), tried to do a good job and have some laughs, and went home to my family. I didn't run for ALPA office and I wasn't all vocal at the meetings. In fact, I never had the opportunity to attend one. I think that unions are a necessary evil but I can see the down side to them too. I don't think that people should take what their union reps tell them as gospel. I am glad that AMR bought us and, considering my position, I think it has been fair for me. I really wouldn't ask for more.

Having said all of the above, it is kind of a dagger when I read posts that imply that since I chose TWA, I am now considered a SCAB or SCAB-LIKE. It is disheartening to think that, with my label as an ex-TWA guy, there will be people that will think less of me before they get to know me or fly with me. All I want to do is come back to work and have fun. People keep telling me that there is only a vocal minority that will harbor these feelings (on both sides) and I hope that is correct.

I look forward to meeting you fellas.

 

[SuperDavi8ator]

Hate to be a bubble buster here, but the one thing that most of these post disregard is that fact that APA is currently in the middle of Sec 6 negotiations. IMHO there will not be a TOTAL recall until a new contract is sign. AMR has a history of holding furloughees hostage as a bargaining tool. Has happened 3 times in the past and there is no reason to think things will be any different this time. Especially in the "Forced Manure" mode that we are operating in now.

After the NMB and the 200+ are returned because of the new list, a sign of future recalls and hiring will be a signed and ratified contract.

As far as holding hands, and singing Kum Bia Yah (sp?) with the "TWABS" (yes I do use that word but I prefer TWAliban”). Most of us think they are just reaping what they sow. I guess the term "Ski Nazi" is just a term of endearment?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

As far as holding hands, and singing Kum Bia Yah (sp?) with the "TWABS" (yes I do use that word but I prefer TWAliban”). Most of us think they are just reaping what they sow. I guess the term "Ski Nazi" is just a term of endearment?


This is kind of what I was talking about. It's a shame.

 

[717driver]

As an outsider looking in on these issues, I hope to God my airline
is never bought out by this scum.

What it is that gives you the right to judge and label someone just because your company decided to buy their company is beyond me.

What are these TWA guys (with families to feed, just like you) supposed to do?

Working and flying their airplanes hardly makes them scabs. If this isn't easy to understand, then some of you need to bone up on your history!

 

[PHX767]

DiamondDDD, TWA Dude, and others that I am not aware of,

You guys are not scabs, and some new airline guys without a lot of civilian experience do not realize the awful implications and emotion that that ugly term brings to mind.

There will always be a minority in every acquisition that will make the remainder appear ungrateful or unhappy. In my limited experience, these are the people with the most to lose - the real senior and the real junior.

It is human nature to try and get all you can out of a new arrangement. I really do understand former TWA pilots trying for date of hire. Our contract had language which said (and I paraphrase) "staple 'em all". We didn't. There are about 5,000 ways to figure out how to merge a seniority list. None of them will make everybody happy. This one surely won't either. Both sides had negotiators to try and get the best deal for their groups. That is a thankless job.

There will be bitterness and rancor for some time, long after we start flying together. The true professionals will leave predjudice and emotion out of the cockpit, just as we do now for members of other genders, sexual orientation, national origin, or color of skin.

I would have been happier if the acquisition had not taken place, but nobody asked me. I could have left the airline if I felt that strongly about it. I don't.

My bottom line is that it's a done deal and I cannot do anything about it. I am going to spend my energy trying to get back to work, and then get EVERYBODY back to work.

I am sure that the TWA roster contains about 90% great guys, 5% jerks, and 5% total flamers - just like our list.

It's time to quit whining over what might have been and look to the future of our great line.

AA pilots that used to work for TWA, welcome aboard.