Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

AA to get Leather Jackets

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Snoopy58

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
495
American brings back bomber jacket

Optional addition to pilot uniform gets a mostly warm reaction


09:35 PM CST on Monday, February 16, 2004


By KATIE FAIRBANK / The Dallas Morning News



Harking back to the styles of aviators of old, American Airlines will allow its pilots to sport leather bomber jackets in the cockpit.

The black jackets, which will be optional, are seen as a way to honor the traditions of pilots, increase their cool factor with customers and, the airline hopes, cheer up employees in the wake of pay cuts and corporate instability.

"We think that the finest aviators in the world deserve the finest uniform accessories," wrote Mark Hettermann, American's vice president of flight, in a letter to the airline's pilots.

Soon after sending the note, the Fort Worth-based carrier was inundated with questions about the uniform change. Flight administration officials asked pilots to be patient in an e-mail message Monday.

"We do not yet have ordering information. Please do not call your crew base office ... as they don't have any info either," the message said.

The airline isn't yet able to say how much the jackets will cost, which company will make them or when passengers will start seeing pilots wearing them.

American has been borrowing from its traditions in several decisions lately. For instance, the company stepped up to sponsor events honoring the Wright Brothers' first flight and Vietnam-era aircraft.

And then there was the recent decision to keep the caps that pilots wear.

"I basically endorsed the hat. It's a request to honor the tradition," said Capt. Hettermann.

Now, the airline is going even more traditional with the black leather jacket.

Leather dates back to the early days of flight when pilots needed protection in open cockpits. In World War I, heroic pilots had a rather shaky success rate, but they looked dashing in their leather trench coats, goggles and scarves.

Later, serious pilots such as Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart, celebrities of their day, were often pictured wearing leather jackets.

Then by World War II, the traditional jackets took on the moniker of "bombers" and were worn by entire flight crews who donned them for battle.

In the 1950s and '60s, the U.S. Air Force lost interest in the style and the jackets began losing their military significance. It was around then that the style was co-opted by teenagers trying to rebel along the lines of Marlon Brando and James Dean. Motorcycle riders, band roadies and the "Fonz" also picked up on the style.

"I think the leather jacket is one of the most important menswear items of the 20th century," said Myra Walker, director of the Texas Fashion Collection at the University of North Texas. "It's a status symbol within a lot of different classes."

In the 1980s, the Air Force and Navy decided to take their tradition back, hoping that the leather jackets would increase morale and retain pilots, who were ditching the military in droves for better pay in the commercial airlines.



Mixed reactions

But now, it's the airlines themselves that are adopting the leather jacket for their crews.

"The pilots absolutely love them," said Greg Crum, vice president of flight operations for Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co. Southwest added the leather bomber jacket as part of the pilot uniform about a decade ago. "We made them an optional uniform accessory."

Pilots at FedEx Corp., Alaska Airlines and some commuters also have adopted leather jackets as part of their pilots' wardrobe.

"I think it keeps us in contact with our roots. It's obviously a symbol of aviation," Capt. Crum said.

Gregg Overman, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, said that some of the pilots at American really like the alternative.

As with the blue wool uniforms that American pilots now wear, they'll have to pay for them out of their own pockets.

"The way I would look at it is it just gives our pilots a choice. No doubt some of them will appreciate that," he said.

Not all of them though. Several have been complaining on pilot chat rooms about the decision. Their objection is that they took a 23 percent pay cut and the company is talking about their outfits.

"I don't think they're against leather jackets or think that it's a horrible idea. It's the idea that Rome is burning and we're going to get spiffy jackets," said New York-based Capt. Sam Mayer. "From what I'm hearing, it's more bad timing than a bad idea."

Meanwhile, other airlines are also looking at uniforms as they try to restructure. For instance, cash-strapped Delta Air Lines Inc. has hired a designer to sex up the uniforms for its flight attendants.



Designer approves

Fashion designer Stan Herman, who helped design pilot uniforms for FedEx, United Airlines and JetBlue Airways, said American's decision to add a leather jacket is good.

"It certainly has more roots in aviation than what they're wearing," he said, adding that he was pleased to hear that American was going to use black rather than its traditional blue in the jacket.

"That was a wise decision. There's nothing hokier than a navy leather jacket," he said.
 
I think it's a great idea. If I were at AA I would be hoping that they go for a more traditional bomber look; that gathered around the waist thing at SWA could be improved, although it's still better than a blazer.
 
On the APA message boards they're decrying the jackets as a psychological union-busting weapon because AA stated it was trying to improve pilot morale.

Dude
 
Morale?

If they really want to boost their morale then why doesn't the company buy the jackets for them? I know it worked wonders at a certain LCC! Some folks tend to take a negative spin on things like that and it could actually have a reverse effect on morale at AA. Either way, I still think leather jackets are nice especially on layovers. Take off the epaulets and nametag and it saves you from having to carry two coats.

C ya
 
"We think that the finest aviators in the world deserve the finest uniform accessories," wrote Mark Hettermann, American's vice president of flight

No AArrogance in that statement, eh??
 
Re: Morale?

jetblue320 said:
Either way, I still think leather jackets are nice especially on layovers. Take off the epaulets and nametag and it saves you from having to carry two coats.

C ya

This is true, they look a lot better on layovers. You can always tell a pilot on a layover because they look like a "flasher" wearing jeans with a long trench coat.

I really hope they don't make them wear the epaulets on the outside of the jacket however. That just looks plain silly. Do they make you wear them like that at JB? I don't think they do at Alaska...but I could be mistaken.
 
Re: Re: Morale?

furloughfodder said:
I really hope they don't make them wear the epaulets on the outside of the jacket however. That just looks plain silly. Do they make you wear them like that at JB? I don't think they do at Alaska...but I could be mistaken.

Well, they don't really "make" us, but some guys do and some don't. There really isn't an official policy to my knowledge. It does replace the standard blazer jacket and/or trench coat if you want. At JB, you get yours issued on your 3rd anniversary. They are nice ones too from Perrone in NY.

C ya.
 
"If they really want to boost their morale then why doesn't the company buy the jackets for them? I know it worked wonders at a certain LCC!"

With approx 10,500 remaining pilots @ $300 per jacket, that equates to $3,150,000.00. Anyone not furloughed has over 3 years seniority.

Or if they have to buy all 13,500 pilots a jacket that's over $4 mill.

How many pilots with over 3 years seniority does JetBlue have?

If AA choose to spend between $3-4 million on leather jackets after the concessions they just received, I would personally drive to Center Port and kick Arpey's AS$.

I have to admit that might boost my morale.
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We think that the finest aviators in the world deserve the finest uniform accessories," wrote Mark Hettermann, American's vice president of flight
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I read that to mean only the TWA aircrews will be in leather.
 
Re: Re: Morale?

furloughfodder said:
You can always tell a pilot on a layover because they look like a "flasher" wearing jeans with a long trench coat.

Have you been watching Spirit crews again?

:D

enigma
 
I hear the APA is meeting at this very hour to work out a "scope clause" for Eagle pilots and leather jackets.

As of right now Eagle pilots remain Scoped from leather jackets:D

Yeah, leather jackets, now you'll turn a profit for sure, great biz plan management people, whatever.
 
quote:"We think that the finest aviators in the world deserve the finest uniform accessories," wrote Mark Hettermann, American's vice president of flight

jetexas said:
No AArrogance in that statement, eh??

Jeesus Cheerist, what do you expect the VP of flight to say at your company? That you're 2nd best? 5th best? If the man didn't say American pilots were the finest aviators, something would be seriously wrong with him.

And someone said something about swelled heads. Listen, when you're ready to apply to the majors, you shiat out multiple apps. You get several interviews if you're lucky. You hire on to the first one or second one that says "you're hired." This is the process. This process does not send naazis to american, xxx to Delta, xxx to United, xxx to Southwest. This process is almost entirely random; any individual pilot goes to whoever's hiring when he or she is looking for a job. In an entirely legitimate alternate universe, in which United had sent me an invitation to an interview before American did, I'd be a furloughed United pilot now, instead of a soon-to-be-furloughed American pilot.

Those are the breaks. Pardon me while I take my swollen head down to the unemployment office March 3rd.
 
:rolleyes:

Jeez, Steveg...

One would think that with all those ratings you wouldn't have such a small mind.

Think you can generalize just a little more and offend everyone else on the board?

Think. Use logic. Be convincing.

But don't be a tool...:eek:
 
Wrong Answer!

SteveG, take a look in the mirror & you'll see proof that your first line is incorrect. There are lots of good guys at AA, and lots more who would be there had circumstances been slightly different. No airline has a corner on "good guys," and every airline has their bottom-of-the-barrel.

Your statement about American pilots has got to be one of the most ignorant, uncivil, inaccurate, and outright rude things posted around here in a long time. You owe a lot of good people an apology.

Snoopy 58
(not an AA pilot)
 
Eagle,

Sorry if my post offended you. But closeminded? I've had a lot of dealings with aa pilots, and for the record, they've all been not nice. What I was trying to say is, I have faith in the interview process. I don't think it's a crapshoot as stated above. I believe that "In General" airlines hire a certain type of person. Each airline has a reputation. Granted reputations aren't always deserved, but for the most part...

From day one, aa pilots are told they are the best in the world. I do have a problem with that. Confidence is one thing, but come on, to tell everyone you meet you are #1. If you disagree, then so be it. For what it is worth, JB seems to be trying to disbunk my theory, and hire a cross-section. I think that is great, and the way it should be done. But if you look back at the hiring trends of other airlines over the past million years, I think you will see my point. Just please don't start telling us all that JB pilots are the best in the world.
 
Snoopy,

I don't owe any aa pilot an apology. Sorry if you disagree. I think they have done more, and allowed more things to bring down this profession than anyone else. B-scale, Scope, Staples, I could go on, but why. If you think I'm wrong, so be it. I'm not trying to convince you. I think history repeats itself. Why do you defend aa? How am I being rude and uncivil? I have first hand dealings with aa pilots, and I think stapling and stealing other pilots jobs is "rude, uncivil, and ignorant". What gives you the right to call me such? You don't know me, and yet you pass judgement. Are you sure you aren't aa? You act like it.
 
steveg said:
Whatever. All the a**holes end up at aa, plain and simple.


Look at what they've done to the profession. How many guys on here think they are better than the TWA pilots because they were hired by "aa". Give the interview people more credit than this. I know of several people that were turned down by other majors, only to get hired by aa.

We all know what aa stands for right?

Only the arrogant a**holes need apply........

I've read a lot of history on Chuck Yeager.

So, Mr. Yeager when did you get your 1900 type?


Take it easy their "Ice Man"
 
G4 is an example of the all-knowing, superior pilot hired exclusively by aa. I wish I were as great as him!
 
You start this cra p
and then get upset when people give you a hard time.

I never said booooooo about my skills. I just gave you a little ribbing and you can't take it.

For your sake I hope your skills are better then your attitude.

Good Luck.
 
Last edited:
Talking with a LUV buddy of mine, he mentioned that they have to pay for their jackets too.

AA wants $300

How much is SWA & FedEx charging? Are they nice?
 
Jackets

The leather jackets at Fedex cost from about 295 to 325 depending on which liner you buy. They are pretty nice jackets. The company will reimburse a newhire $300 for uniforms the first year, and the jacket can be rolled over for a year, so youare reimbursed for about 150 worth of unis and 150 of the jacket your first year, and then you can get another 150 back for the jacket the 2nd year. After that you continue to get up to 150 back for unis per year.
 
Re: Re: Morale?


I really hope they don't make them wear the epaulets on the outside of the jacket however. That just looks plain silly. Do they make you wear them like that at JB? I don't think they do at Alaska...but I could be mistaken.

Our leather coats are optional at Alaska. Most of the pilots wear them though. Much easier on a RON. Ours don't have the epaulets on the outside. Just the wings that can be removed for the night.

The jacket is from the San Diego Leather Co. Very good quality and sharp. They are about $350 or so.
 
SWA jackets are from Perrone Leather, and they are quite nice. A newhire buddy mentioned I think $350 he paid, which seemed a little high to me but I may be remembering wrong and/or the cost may have gone up, or that may be with the zip-out liner option. For SWA a couple of "custom" touches come standard (emboridered emblem on the sewn-in liner).

Good to not need to pack a jacket for the overnights, and even without the liner they're good for about as cold as it gets in the US. IF you envision early AM preflights for the next several winters in a far north base, I'd consider getting the zip-out liner, if they offer that for you. Normal latitudes, skip it. Don't get the sewn-in thinsulite liner unless you're perpetually cold -- you'll bake in it otherwise!

Most guys are real happy with the jackets. Enjoy!
 
San Diego Leather has some nice jackets. If any of you guys ever get to Osan South Korea you can get very nice quality jackets there for $115. In my opinion they are even better than SDL. Go to Oxford Leather. Some of you probably know where I am talking about.

Stop in for a "Juciey" after... :)
 
G4G5 said:
"If they really want to boost their morale then why doesn't the company buy the jackets for them? I know it worked wonders at a certain LCC!"

With approx 10,500 remaining pilots @ $300 per jacket, that equates to $3,150,000.00. Anyone not furloughed has over 3 years seniority.

Or if they have to buy all 13,500 pilots a jacket that's over $4 mill.

How many pilots with over 3 years seniority does JetBlue have?

If AA choose to spend between $3-4 million on leather jackets after the concessions they just received, I would personally drive to Center Port and kick Arpey's AS$.

I have to admit that might boost my morale.

Hey G4G5,

Am I to infer form your post that there are 3000 pilots on furlough? OR are you including the Eagle guys? Last I'd heard it was closer to 1300 AA/TWA on the street...

Thanks
 
are you **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ting me?? they're still gonna furlough again in Mar? I had heard they were re-growing their ops and adding capacity in the South American runs... how are they manning this airline? Too many guys are working over time or something to make up for their pay cuts!

Sad.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom