AA takes off without flaps!!!

[Fearless Tower]

You guys are almost all misssing the point. It's good he spoke up. Who knows he could have saved the day. He didn't but you never know. Kudos for speaking up!

I wouldn't rip on a guy with only a private. He's got some experience and it might just help.

I don't think the issue is really a matter of the pax asking the FA, but the loser for posting the whole story here AND A.net. I wholeheartedly agree with the assessment that theGuat is a TOOL and it was an inflammatory post. If he had simply posted a question along the lines of 'is it normal for A300's to takoff without tailing edge flaps extended' then I don't think we'd have 5 pages of replies!

 

[LarryinTN]

I have never even heard of such a thing until this thread. Images of the NWA MD80 crash in DTW come to mind when I think about taking off with no flaps.

The DC9/MD80 can take off with zero flaps just fine. The problem in DTW was that they had the slats retracted as well. The DC9/MD80 requires slats for all takeoffs.

Reducing the takeoff flaps increases your initial climb performance so it increases your climb-limit weight. The disadvantage is that it also increases your runway required thereby reducing your runway-limit weight. On a long runway the climb-limit weight will be more restrictive so you can carry more weight by using less, or no, flaps and a higher V1 and Vr speed. On shorter runways your runway-limit is more restrictive so you use more flaps and lower V1/Vr speeds to get a higher runway-limit.

Many airlines default to a configuration with flaps as their normal takeoff configuration as it results in more runway remaining at V1 for an abort and lower tire speeds. That is then adjusted, up or down, as necessary to lift the actual load.

 

[LarryinTN]

I thought after the NWA accident in DTW it was a requirement to have an aural warning on transport category aircraft when the flaps/ and or slats are in a TO setting.

It was a requirement before the NWA accident as well. The takeoff warning horn did not work on the accident airplane.

 

[glasspilot1]

Or how about the Comair crash in Lexington, with the Airtran jumpseater in the back. Too bad he didnt start yelling for the abort. ( but really, how was he to know?).

He may have had 30+ seconds to wonder why there were no runway lights visable on the T/O roll.

 

[instructordude]

instructordude,

After I lose 2 motors and am down to 1 I'll call the private pilot up and hand it over to him. Wait, we don't have pax. Guess I'm screwed then! No one qualified to fly single engine. :0

Not if somebody has flown the greatest plane ever, no other than the Fighting Falcon.!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I didn't know that your pax were considered part of the "crew" on an airliner. Guess I have a lot to learn about CRM.

Yes you do, if my generalization is accurate. (who knows).

I was/am wrong to make generalizations. My only real point was how often do the pax offer anything? If they do offer it, we should consider the input. The F/A may be the one really freaking out. I personally welcome input. We can even make a short PA to point out the flaps are properly set up for T/O.

Yeah its a bother. But you don't know how many of the pax or F/A's are freaking out and your efforts may allay their fears AND increase the likelihood they will fly you again. PAX feel uncomfortably out of control sitting in the back. Letting them feel their input matters has value.

If you are messing up, the day was saved. Unlikely but possible.

Practicing really good CRM means having the confidence to let others challenge your ego and not let it get bruised.

 

[se1776]

her we go a private pilot that knows everything.
here is another SJS case

do you use flaps on your little piper or cessna whe you take off?
have you heard an airline pilots come and question you why you
didn't used your flaps?

 

[PastV1]

Not if somebody has flown the greatest plane ever, no other than the Fighting Falcon.!

You mean the LAWN DART! (No offense to the 16's guys) They would be fine. A hot shi* 152 driver like yourself would not be.

 

[Rook]

He said, and I quote, "I have almost 1000 hours of flight time"....

I'm thinking of changing my sig to that Huck.

Now how bout some sponsorship?:beer:

 

[Laboule]

Don't you guys have any jobs/hobbies/girlfriends?