AA pot-stir

[aa73]

Pilotpayne, my post was also not directed at the JB pilot group, amongst which I have many friends: rather, it was directed at someone taking pot shots at the remnants of our BK contract who works at an airline that lately seems to be bringing down the very profession we're trying to rebuild. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[zymotic]

I will let my bank know that I don't need to pay the mortgage for 12 months. It's only a year.

Someone should let Delta, Alaska, United, Southwest, JetBlue, and probably others that they are paying first year pilots too much. I guess after a decade of flying airplanes, we all have some more dues to pay if we want to work for American.

It is what it is. I don't know the specifics of first year pay at the other airlines you mentioned. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of first year pay coming up in the near future as a result of a joint contract. If first year pay is a high priority of someone looking to move on then it would seem prudent to skip AA. However, it would seem like extreme folly to put virtually any weight on one year of pay in my opinion.

As far as your mortgage, perhaps you could have employed a little known technique know as "saving". I believe I was able to put away 20K one year at Mesa with a family of 5.

 

[acaTerry]

If you're thinking of leaving for the majors in the next couple years, you're timimg should be good. United, Delta, and American are going to be hiring large numbers for at least the next 10 years. Yes, there are a lot of applicants right now, but all three carriers are and will be pulling from the same pool. My choice if looking to move to a major right now would be Delta, American, then United, but it's all good. What is it they say? Go with the first one that calls. If you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with NetJets?

I'll get you a PM today. It's not that bad, but it's far from the job I took there 9 years ago (basically to keep a job until the airlines recovered).

 

[waveflyer]

I first logged onto FI in 2007 with one problem at the forefront.
We cannot change companies no matter how desperate the company's position because of seniority and bc of pay.
Therefore our companies knew we'd rather cut off our left nut than start over at another company- all they had to do was cook the books, put the company in straights, (and they don't care because they're getting paid regardless, right?)- and watch pilot group after pilot group fold under very real leverage.

There are two solutions- a national seniority list in various forms- but that conversation went nowhere and there are lots of reasons for that-

The other, less messy, partial solution is to simply raise first year pay.
It's about garnering votes and we just need to sway10-20%

The concept of first year pay at this level is bogus in its entirety anyway. None of us are rookies by the time we get to a legacy job-
And if every airline can get on board and get first year up to $70-100k we can more reasonably take stands against aggressive collective bargaining techniques by our companies, bc we have the security that the next job is a decent wage right away.
Most have done this- not to where I'd like to see them to have the desired effect next downturn, but getting there

AA has not so far

AA- is APC up to date? Is it really $35/hour?
What will $35/hour net you by year' send W-2?

 

[AeroDMB]

It's far from updated. First year is $40/hr across both the Bus and E190, negotiations to start shortly for the JCBA which may increase it. Time will tell. Go search for MOU for Us/AA and you can see the future pay rates as it currently stands prior to the JCBA. People on these boards don't seem to know the numbers (aka research) prior to flinging poo.

 

[pave driver]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...an-to-a-Merger-MOU-explainer-January-2013.pdf

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...l-heres-the-full-mou-with-usapa-and-apa.html/

 

[acaTerry]

People on these boards don't seem to know the numbers (aka research) prior to flinging poo.

And you are just now realizing this?

 

[waveflyer]

It's far from updated. First year is $40/hr across both the Bus and E190, negotiations to start shortly for the JCBA which may increase it. Time will tell. Go search for MOU for Us/AA and you can see the future pay rates as it currently stands prior to the JCBA. People on these boards don't seem to know the numbers (aka research) prior to flinging poo.

Well, $5 more doesn't make me wildly inaccurate and failure to research a 4 day old contract is nothing I'll feel bad about. Sorry bout not feeling bad...

But the questions still persist-
Bc of extra fly rules (pays at 2nd year rates) for 1st year pilots I made $74k my first year at SWA (tfp rate of $47)
Friend started at airways 6 months before @$41/hr on the 190. He cleared $36k

So what can an AA new hire expect to W-2 at $40/hr?

 

[Trogdor]

$40 x 73 hour guarantee x 12 months = $35,040

 

[Bringupthebird]

First year pay is not grounded in reality, but if we're honest with ourselves neither is pilot pay in general.

Prior to the very late 50's and early 60's flying was not a high paying profession (if you could call it that) especially relative to the risk. Payrates rose when airlines needed to attract and retain talent to ensure that their expansion, whether it be the introduction of jets with their high costs, or the expansion in route authorities, went smoothly. Now is no different. Mergers are expensive and they need to be largely free of major labor interruptions and airline caretakers (very few have any vision) know this.

When the economy stumbles or some major event rocks our world, no one should be surprised to see the concession stand opening. Sure there will be cries of unity and "Full pay to the last day", but enough of us have been around long enough to know that this is the dark side of the merry go round we work on and when they need labors cooperation to grow (and that will be rarely) they will take the cork out of the piggy bank.

So if you are blessed with a little fatter paycheck for a while, enjoy it. Take your wife out for a steak, a bottle of wine and a side of perspective.

 

[outsidethecloud]

First year pay is not grounded in reality, but if we're honest with ourselves neither is pilot pay in general.

Prior to the very late 50's and early 60's flying was not a high paying profession (if you could call it that) especially relative to the risk. Payrates rose when airlines needed to attract and retain talent to ensure that their expansion, whether it be the introduction of jets with their high costs, or the expansion in route authorities, went smoothly. Now is no different. Mergers are expensive and they need to be largely free of major labor interruptions and airline caretakers (very few have any vision) know this.

When the economy stumbles or some major event rocks our world, no one should be surprised to see the concession stand opening. Sure there will be cries of unity and "Full pay to the last day", but enough of us have been around long enough to know that this is the dark side of the merry go round we work on and when they need labors cooperation to grow (and that will be rarely) they will take the cork out of the piggy bank.

So if you are blessed with a little fatter paycheck for a while, enjoy it. Take your wife out for a steak, a bottle of wine and a side of perspective.

Tried to post the like button but it proved too much of a challenge. Good post!

 

[aa73]

I really don't know how many times I got say this, but nobody here seems to get it...

AA's current contract is still recovering from AA's trip through BK. While many improvements were made, pay improvement is still in progress, including first year pay.

Delta and United first year pay came up REMARKABLY after their Ch 11 exits and mergers, through their new JCBAs. May I remind everyone here what their new hire pay rates were before that? It was in the 30$/hr range, similar to ours today.

Now that we are out of BK and merged, you can expect our new hire pay to also come up to delta and united standards with the JCBA.

It's not rocket science folks... work with me here.

 

[zymotic]

First year pay is not grounded in reality, but if we're honest with ourselves neither is pilot pay in general.

So if you are blessed with a little fatter paycheck for a while, enjoy it. Take your wife out for a steak, a bottle of wine and a side of perspective.

But..but..but, Airline pilots should make $400K per year minimum! That's what it would be if you took the pay in the 70's and factored in inflation :bawling:

Seriously though, perspective is a perfect word. I'm by far probably the highest paid guy in my small church (and I'm making the lowest wages of any major airline pilot). One guy has an MBA and works at the DMV and a second job at Chick fillet. Another is a high school teacher pulling down no more than 45K per year and paying about $1200 per month in insurance premiums. He took a second job teaching a college class at night so they could repair their kitchen. He leaves his house at 6AM and gets home at 11PM.

Here I am sitting home sometimes up to 30 days at a time without going to work (short call reserve). Have I made as much as my peers lately? No where near. However, I've got nothing to complain about.

 

[Green]

Where do you live? Where I'm from it takes about 650k to buy a decent fixer upper on a tiny lot. If you don't mind living on the outskirts you might get something for 450k. Considering the massive liability pilots shoulder every time they go to work they should be able to afford living in the cities in which they are based. 400K sounds about right for the right seat

 

[waveflyer]

Where do you live? Where I'm from it takes about 650k to buy a decent fixer upper on a tiny lot. If you don't mind living on the outskirts you might get something for 450k. Considering the massive liability pilots shoulder every time they go to work they should be able to afford living in the cities in which they are based. 400K sounds about right for the right seat

I've never thought it right that there is NO cost of living adjustment for airline pilots. Total scam by those who live in the Dallas's of the world.