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Get over it

Everytime a person in position of authority speaks his mind on the state of the industry and his company, it is anti pilot and a negotiating ploy. Get over it.

What he is stating is that the traveling public has indicated that they will not pay for fringes, especially now.

What he is saying is that some others have found a formula that is successful in today's economy. The traditional American Airlines approach is not going to work in the future.

What he is saying is that you either adapt to the new way of business or perish.

Consistantly over the last 20 years, American has had the best major airline management in this country followed by Delta. You might want to listen to it.
 
I have just one word:

SCOPE

AA can negotiate what ever they want, but they best work on scope or they'll find those Fokkers flying under Eagle's certificate along with CRJ900's.
 
Lets keep in mind that SWA pays their pilots and probably many other work groups significantly less than AA and their pilot productivity is far greater. I would guess that the SWA pilot union will be seeking a MAJOR pay raise here in two years or so. This will make it a lot easier for AA and others to compete.
 
Again

Again, it is all not related to pilots and pilot pay.

Southwest beats AA on many fronts. On the ones they are close, they both probably beat the pants off of United and the other so called majors.

The fact that they are much more productive for whatever they are paid should send a message to someone.
 
yeah, that message will be to the National Mediation Board that will award the SWA F/A's and Pilots industry leading contracts and allow the company to better compete fairly with UAL/AMR etc.... And no, pilots aren't the only reason SWA makes money while AMR doesn't, however they are a major factor along with the F/A's and Mechanics all of whome are seeking major payraises.

I didn't get this from my own head, just listen to the Confrence call for the Q1 Earnings report for AMR. The CFO said that a major cause for the cost advantage that SWA has is labor cost/productivity and that this will lessen over time as the two (APA/SWAPA) converge......(more likely the SWAPA will come up to the APA).
 
Re: Get over it

Consistantly over the last 20 years, American has had the best major airline management in this country followed by Delta. You might want to listen to it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Publisher,
I would love to hear what you are basing your opinion on how AMR has had the best major airline management in country. You must mean the supurb relationship that management has with all its employee groups or maybe the high ethical standards to which they adhere to. Maybe it is the constant belief that their own employees are the enemy.
The only reason this company continues to run despite the best efforts management has to make it disapear from the face of the earth is soley because the dedication and pride that each employee can give no matter how badly management trys to take it away.
 
right

bluesideup

I am reminded of a quote from when Crandall was CEO. A pilot was describing him, " He is a real son of a bitch, but, thank God he is our Son of a bitch."

The point was while all management sucked to him, at least he recognized that his guy was the best of the lot. Airline management has to get along with a large number of groups, not just pilots or even employees. Balancing all those groups and interests is what makes it so hard.

As to Southwest, they have become the best for many reasons. If I was trying to give a simple example of one reason it would be this. Flying Tigers, the cargo carrier, tried for a number of years to compete with Fedex in the overnight business. One of the reasons they failed was because they tried to mix overnight envelopes with regular freight. It did not work.

The dealing with regular freight was what took the time and more expense and made them non competitive.

Southwest only has one type of passenger, one type of plane, one set of standards of service, and people who believe they are the best. That is a winning combination today and tomorrow.
 
AMR-Expand

Let me give you example of SWA employee relations.

Before 9/11 I talked to 2 pilots at SWA about their contract negotiations. Junior pilot, only 3 years with SWA was complaining about schedule, and pay. He told me he would go for UAL or DAL without looking back. However, senior pilot about 20 years with SWA told me this is the best place in the world and that the junior guys only make problems with the contract negotiations, they don't want to work hard ,,,, etc.

My point is after 9/11 I am sure everybody thinks SWA is the best employee company, they take care of their own people, no furloughs. If that is true, than why not sign Mechanics Contract without delays. Also, what will happen when SWA has 9000 pilots and they request same pay on the A/C as their friends at the other airlines. It will be interesting to see what will happen, with more people you will have also more problems. Junior pilots don't care so much about profit sharing. It is all about cash, and when economy goes back, they will forget that SWA didn't furlough after 9/11. Of course, I wish SWA all the best, they are there to keep Majors in balance, but never one side (SWA) has everything good and everyone else is just a looser.

As far as AMR, I would agree they have a solid Management. However, I think they should change their conservative approach to business. They have airplanes, people, they should attack market to attain greater share of passengers. Why put all TWA pilots in STL. They could create extra domiciles around country, and start same operation like SWA. If you have money you go against competition instead waiting to see what everybody else does. When UAL expanded in 80s/90s, they didn,t wait for the competition they went for the market. I think AMR business strategy was excellent when they were #2 Airline, but now being #1 you either learn very fast to lead or you end up second best again. Also, never understood, why can't they ones for all stop arguing with Unions and show to the rest of the business world being and staying #1 also requires fair relations with your Unions.

All the best Alek
 
Again, I say, Listen to the last AMR conference call to investors (on AMRCORP.com) and you will hear two things that I believe ar facts that have already been stated on this thread.

1. AMR is a very conservative company that understates everything and makes very conservative assumptions (as compared with other airlines).

2. SWA has a MAJOR advantage in that their labor cost (which is by far the largers cost to an airline) is smaller than all other carriers, other than AWA (don't ask my why they can't turn a profit).

With that, we can assume that AMR, which has $3 Billion in the bank and another $6 Billion in aircraft assets will be around for a long time. We can also assume that SWA will over time (maybe 5-6 years) begin to see labor costs grow and then they will really have to begin to compete. As of now, they are only competing with themselves, Jet Blue is too small to matter for now. Plus a 737 can only take you so many places, you still need cross the Pacific, and that costs a lot less to do when you pack the plane with 250+ vs the 140 or so a 737 can handle.

I predict that SWA will continue to grow, but at a much smaller rate. It kinda reminds me of NetJets, for a while everybody said that they will take over all of the Corporate Jet flying in the country because they do it cheaper. well they have not and they never will, they are a nich product and their customer base is very finite.

AMR will be back strong, and all of us with class dates that were cancelled (if we are determined) will get invited back to interview when they begin hiring, I'll bet on it.
 
Guys

The bottom line is that when the economy is up, the big carriers thrive and are the place to be. When the economy is down, the low fare carriers and freight folks are the place to be. SWA has a great corporate climate and is a wonderful place to work. My buds there, though, were really bitching prior to 9-11 about the inequity of the pay scales. God knows where we're headed next but all of the optimism and pie-in-the-sky attributes of SWA, Jet Blue, et al should be kept in perspective of today's marketplace.
 

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