AA pilots refuse to renegotiate TA

[lowecur]

This was just reported on Bloomberg. I assume they mean a broadening of scope to include the 100 seater at the present going rate.

Apparently all that kissyface, huggybear, communication between the pilots and mgt has fallen flat. As is always the case with every pilots group, they will wring every last buck out of the company.

The pilots for their part I'm sure feel that revenue is on the uptic throughout the industry, and they will wait until it's absolutely necessary before making any changes.

Old Gerard should have taken the company to 11 when he had the chance.

imp:

 

[blzr]

Oh... Lowecur..... You have opened a big can of tomales now...

Pilots wringing every last buck out of a company??? yeah right.

 

[BoilerUP]

Anybody wants popcorn and beer for this thread, PM me...

FWIW, I thought AA already had a 100 seat rate with the F100. How does that compare to the S80?

 

[blzr]

That's like saying that Enron's employees are responsable for the company going down, not the management...

I guess it's true, no amount of talking can change a mind that's been made up...

 

[lowecur]

Oh... Lowecur..... You have opened a big can of tomales now...

Pilots wringing every last buck out of a company??? yeah right.

:laugh: :laugh:
So whose left that already hasn't given the 100 seat flying to regionals or incorporated it into mainline? AMR is the sole surviving legacy that still owns and flys most of it's regional service. I know, DL still does, but that will change shortly. The pilots don't want Eagle to have it, and they want it.........but at rates that are out of the mainstream. Remember, there is only (1) one mfg of these a/c and there is going to be some serious backlog to those who have no foresite.

Oh well, he who hesitates is lost.

imp:

 

[AAflyer]

This was just reported on Bloomberg. I assume they mean a broadening of scope to include the 100 seater at the present going rate.

Apparently all that kissyface, huggybear, communication between the pilots and mgt has fallen flat. As is always the case with every pilots group, they will wring every last buck out of the company.

The pilots for their part I'm sure feel that revenue is on the uptic throughout the industry, and they will wait until it's absolutely necessary before making any changes.

Old Gerard should have taken the company to 11 when he had the chance.

imp:

Ok you freaking nimrod. The management team just rewarded themselves with a 100 million dollar bonus. I know cash is so important right now, so important that our business model is not sustainable, that we need more cuts from the pilots, in work rules, and productivity etc. etc. But we can afford to pay 100 million to one thousand managers. one of them receiving 1.7 million dollars for coming up with the brain child idea of "We know why you fly"

Guess what Lowecur? I fly because I need the freakin money. If people like you would pay what it costs for airline ticket we wouldn't be here.

Back to our huggy, feely, management team. They may receive another 200 million next year, why? Because THEIR BONUS plan is ONLY based on the STOCK PRICE, it has no metric to the company performance.

I WILL NOT SUBSIDIZE MANAGEMENT BONUSES!

We have 100 seat jet pay-rates, and they are not negotiable! I don't want that brazilian trash over here anyway. re-engine the 80s, or buy 737-700s.

You are such a piece of %^*Lowecur.

AAflyer

Hey nimrod, you can see what direction the wind blows.... It is called a wind sock.....idiot...

 

[jetexas]

AA mgmnt has chosen it's own greed over dedication to 'sharing the burden'.
Why should AA pilots "give" more? Mgmt can't have it both ways. They just don't get it.
They've been hammering AA and Eagle to save fuel for a while now. We did it,..and they go and take a bonus equal to about what was saved. Pretty rotten and arrogant. At least G.A. had enough clout to bypass his bonus.

 

[AAflyer]

AA mgmnt has chosen it's own greed over dedication to 'sharing the burden'.
Why should AA pilots "give" more? Mgmt can't have it both ways. They just don't get it.
They've been hammering AA and Eagle to save fuel for a while now. We did it,..and they go and take a bonus equal to about what was saved. Pretty rotten and arrogant. At least G.A. had enough clout to bypass his bonus.

Thanks for reminding me, all our fuel conservation to the tune of 100 million goes in to the pockets of the team that needs to be retained.

Why is it that AA,UA,US,DAL,NWA all need to pay massive bonuses to retain these top management teams that drove these airline into the ground?

AA

 

[simav8r]

Lowecur,

From an AA pilot that took a 100% paycut so the company could stay out of Chapter 11....picture a middle finger raised. Stick that in your crackpipe and smoke it!!!

If your balls are so big and heavy, go out and get your own flying job and then come back and talk about sacrifice....pudknocker.

 

[lowecur]

Ok you freaking genius! Thank you! The management team just rewarded themselves with a 100 million dollar bonus. I know cash is so important right now, so important that our business model is not sustainable, that we need more cuts from the pilots, in work rules, and productivity etc. etc.

I WILL NOT SUBSIDIZE MANAGEMENT BONUSES! Wake up palley, mgt bonuses have been going on for years and will be going on into the next millenium for every airline that wants to keep top mgt. Now if you want to pay them peanuts, I'm sure you can find a few out of work mgrs that will answer the bell, living in a cardboard box just around the corner from your house.

We have 100 seat jet pay-rates, and they are not negotiable! I don't want that brazilian trash over here anyway. re-engine the 80s, or buy 737-700s.

You are such a swell guy Lowecur. I know!

AAflyer

Hey nimrod, you can see what direction the wind blows.... It is called a wind sock.....idiot...

And I was going to send you a Christmas Card this year. You've been strished!

imp:

 

[FurloughedTwice]

This was just reported on Bloomberg. I assume they mean a broadening of scope to include the 100 seater at the present going rate.

Apparently all that kissyface, huggybear, communication between the pilots and mgt has fallen flat. As is always the case with every pilots group, they will wring every last buck out of the company.

The pilots for their part I'm sure feel that revenue is on the uptic throughout the industry, and they will wait until it's absolutely necessary before making any changes.

Old Gerard should have taken the company to 11 when he had the chance.

This guy obviously doesn't have a clue about the industry so don't even bother.

Pilots give 39% in pay cuts and they are still the ones wringing every last buck out the the company. Give me a break!! Meanwhile management is rewarding themselves millions of dollars at a time when the airlines are either in bankruptcy or bleeding. What a joke.

 

[AAflyer]

Why is it that AA,UA,US,DAL,NWA all need to pay massive bonuses to retain these top management teams that drove these airline into the ground?


They are not in cardboard boxes, they are slithering over to Virgin America, and history will repeat itself again.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

Anybody wants popcorn and beer for this thread, PM me...

FWIW, I thought AA already had a 100 seat rate with the F100. How does that compare to the S80?

As of this May ,2006

S80 captain 12 year $156.50

F100 captain 12 year $145.36
737-300 "" "" "" "" $146.51

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

when if or do yall get a snapback to your old payrates at AA?

 

[GogglesPisano]

:laugh: :laugh:
So whose left that already hasn't given the 100 seat flying to regionals or incorporated it into mainline? .

imp:

CAL. You're quite the analyst, Lowecur. Is this your day job? If so, please don't quite your night job.

 

[AAflyer]

when if or do yall get a snapback to your old payrates at AA?

The year after it was signed we received a 7-8% snap back. After that it is 1.5% per year. So as of this May it will be roughly 12-12.5% from the original 23%

There is more to this than meets the eye. Many took a 100% paycut by getting furloughed, there many others (like myself) that lost seats from WB-to NB and guys from CA-to FO. Those added on top of 23% equated to a much larger paycut.

Lastly guys like myself with less than 12 years still receive a longevity increase each year at roughly 3%. So If I went back to the 767-300 ER next year with Int'l over-ride I would be almost back to where i was in 2001-2. Not bad, but a far cry from what DAL and UAL had, not to mention I would now almost be back to 2001-2 wages after 4-6 years of inflation.

However I am not trying to sound ungrateful. I am very happy to have a job, and there many TWA pilots that laid down on the sword for us, and many native pilots that were also furloughed. It is sometimes to easy to b1tch and complain when we still have it pretty good.

AA

 

[aa73]

You got that right AAFlyer! Well said...

Our goal right now should be to repeal Pref Bidding at all costs, as a start. I know it was a great system at TWA, but then again you guys could trust your company with PBS. Can you imagine AMR schedule planners with PBS in their hands,now that's scary.

I am sure the folks in Centerport are laughing their arses off at Hunter and the APA - but it'll die down once he starts floursihing in a management position.

 

[Draginass]

I thought Arpey said he had no interest in buying 100 seat jungle junk.

 

[AAflyer]

I thought Arpey said he had no interest in buying 100 seat jungle junk.

If you were Arpey and had an interest in something, like new aircraft that would bring back furloughs, would you let the pilots in on it? Arpey is a friendly guy, but make not mistake his job is pleasing the shareholders. They will suck as much APA marrow from the bone that they can get, then you will see recalls and aircraft orders, or a move up of the original 737-800 orders.

This is high stakes poker......and we have Ralph and company with their poker faces and dresses on....
:erm:

AA

 

[AAslag]

Y'all leave lowecur alone!

He makes me laugh.

 

[lowecur]

The year after it was signed we received a 7-8% snap back. After that it is 1.5% per year. So as of this May it will be roughly 12-12.5% from the original 23%

There is more to this than meets the eye. Many took a 100% paycut by getting furloughed, there many others (like myself) that lost seats from WB-to NB and guys from CA-to FO. Those added on top of 23% equated to a much larger paycut.

Lastly guys like myself with less than 12 years still receive a longevity increase each year at roughly 3%. So If I went back to the 767-300 ER next year with Int'l over-ride I would be almost back to where i was in 2001-2. Not bad, but a far cry from what DAL and UAL had, not to mention I would now almost be back to 2001-2 wages after 4-6 years of inflation.

However I am not trying to sound ungrateful. I am very happy to have a job, and there many TWA pilots that laid down on the sword for us, and many native pilots that were also furloughed. It is sometimes to easy to b1tch and complain when we still have it pretty good.

AA

I still say you can't see the forest through the trees (how bout that, Ty?). Retribution is just a dumb decision. Sure you showed mgt that you disapprove of their actions, but you also set the company back months or years by not recognizing there is short term window open to keep the company on level ground with the other carriers. The money to be made is on the back end when you put your carrier in a position to be successful in the long run.

AMR will continue to trudge along until their regional feed has it's back broken by the E-jets. At that point, you can tell your kids that it's important to stand up for yourself....even if it means putting your company in a position that may be terminal.

Good luck.....you'll need it.

imp:

 

[AAflyer]

No lowecur,

The managers screwed it up for us. If we are being given data that our CEO said will let us know that we need to possibly give more, than I figure they should be able to read the same data as well and know that it is not the right time for them to take bonuses.

You see, that is why they are given large salaries, they are supposed to be able to manage and last but not least, they are supposed to LEAD.

It may hurt AA in the end, but I can look at myself in mirror. I will not continue to subsidize management bonuses and passengers for the lure of flying an ER-190.

Until you sit on the flight deck of an airliner you will never understand and any argument with you is merely academic at best. Actually humorous would be a better word.

AA

 

[Dangerkitty]

I still say you can't see the forest through the trees (how bout that, Ty?). Retribution is just a dumb decision. Sure you showed mgt that you disapprove of their actions, but you also set the company back months or years by not recognizing there is short term window open to keep the company on level ground with the other carriers. The money to be made is on the back end when you put your carrier in a position to be successful in the long run.

AMR will continue to trudge along until their regional feed has it's back broken by the E-jets. At that point, you can tell your kids that it's important to stand up for yourself....even if it means putting your company in a position that may be terminal.

Good luck.....you'll need it.

imp:

You couldn't be anymore wrong.

If the E-Jets come to AA then they will be flown by mainline pilots at mainline pay rates. They do not have to be flown only by Eagle pilots to be profitable.

However, after flying that POS Embraer 145 WSCOD I wouldn't ever wanna fly one of those Brazilian lawn darts again.

 

[lowecur]

You couldn't be anymore wrong. Is your name Fred Reid? Over the next 10 years, you will effectively see the 170/190 put many R-jets out to pasture with their ability to by-pass hubs. The 170/175 will incur on some feed routes where it is practicle.

If the E-Jets come to AA then they will be flown by mainline pilots at mainline pay rates. Part right....They will be flown at regional rates. They do not have to be flown only by Eagle pilots to be profitable. I agree.

However, after flying that POS Embraer 145 WSCOD I wouldn't ever wanna fly one of those Brazilian lawn darts again.

There's talk Boeing is leaning towards a 737 replacement with 787 tech that will run between 100-190 seats. That plane won't be ready until 2012 at the earliest.

imp:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...g+widens+search+for+next+737+.html

 

[Kugelblitz]

One of the problems with bringing 100 seaters onto the mainline is that AA and APA would have to bring back TWA guys that have been furloughed for years. I sincerely doubt either party would want to do that.

 

[G4G5]

There's talk Boeing is leaning towards a 737 replacement with 787 tech that will run between 100-190 seats. That plane won't be ready until 2012 at the earliest.

imp:

[URL="http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...g+widens+search+for+next+737+.html"]http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...g+widens+search+for+next+737+.html[/URL]

2012?

The 797 as it's bebing refered to will be ready a whole lot sooner if SWA wants it. The word on the street is that SWA is will to be the launch customer with a 100+ aircraft order. From what I understand SWA wants it to under cut the A320 folks. The Boeing folks will have that thing ready yesterday if SWA puts up the $$$$.

Look for AA to jump on the coat tails of SWA for the 797. It's the perfect replacement for the MD80's.

What happens to the ERJ190 in a year or two when the 797 is official and orders are being accepted?

 

[aa73]

One of the problems with bringing 100 seaters onto the mainline is that AA and APA would have to bring back TWA guys that have been furloughed for years. I sincerely doubt either party would want to do that.

You are mistaken. Our pilots want nothing more than to bring back furloughed guys, whether they are ex TWA or AA doesn't matter.

The real question is, how many furloughed guys will bypass recall, since so many have moved on to green pastures. Most of us are guessing 1 in 5.

 

[lowecur]

2012?

The 797 as it's bebing refered to will be ready a whole lot sooner if SWA wants it. :laugh: :laugh: The word on the street is that SWA is will to be the launch customer with a 100+ aircraft order. Is that an official statement from the Backstreet Boys? From what I understand SWA wants it to under cut the A320 folks. So that means they want it as a replacement for the 737NG and as a competitor of the 190? The Boeing folks will have that thing ready yesterday if SWA puts up the $$$$. :laugh: Have to get a new TA passed before WN even thinks about it. Throw in a 100 seater rate, and you're looking at 2-4 years of working without a contract (similar to FA's) with those knuckleheads. No my friend, 2012 is in line.

Look for AA to jump on the coat tails of SWA for the 797. It's the perfect replacement for the MD80's. That pilot group can't take two steps without tripping all over itself. Good luck.

What happens to the ERJ190 in a year or two when the 797 is official and orders are being accepted?

I guess the same thing that happened when your crystal ball predicted US Airways would be out of business.

imp:

 

[Don Carty]

Lowecur, THANK you for bringing to light what I tried to say for years. Management bonuses are absolutely necessary to bring talent like me forward. I am proud that my business model at AA lives on, and I hope to replicate it at VA.

Pilots are a commodity, like jet fuel. When the costs go up, you use less of them. We managers simply cannot afford to look at the human side of the equation. When we do, it bothers us for a short period of time, at least until our next round of golf at the club.

Lowecur, keep it up buddy, we need guys like you to point out the obvious. Pilots suck; they're expensive. Trust me, if it was easy to hire Indians or Colombians to fly our jets, we'd do so, but the TSA gets a bit excited when we hire foreigners.

 

[lowecur]

Arbitration of the bonus'

Looks like an arbitrator will decide the bonus situation as agreed to by the pilots. Bonus' anywhere from two grand to $1.9M (who got that, Arpey?). So all the huff and puff about breaking off talks is nothing more than grandstanding, and an excuse to prolong the scope talks. My guess is the union will still balk at talks if an arbitrator reduces the bonus' by 25% or more.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/261936_airlinelabor07.html