PadFull'oTrim
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AA MD-80 in DFW
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TWA 2 ASA FO
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sabreliner
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justApilot
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justApilot
Dawn Patroller
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justApilot
Dawn Patroller
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TWA 2 ASA FO
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JustAPilot.....By the way, YOU ARE WELCOME that we TWA pilots took the majority of the furloughs that you Sky Nazi's would have had to endure following 9/11. Figure AA furloughed around 2,500 pilots. The 1st 368 were hired post merger, so of the next 2150 that would have been furloughed, we took the hit for almost 75% of them. Best X-Mas present you guys will ever get, but at least you appreciate it (NOT), you still hate us. All we did is shield the bottom 2,000 pilots at AA from furlough.
80for80....Right on brother. I am assuming the people bustin out on Eagle flowbacks are trying to figure out how if they are better than the Eagle guys they can't even fly for them. Actually heard it on DFW tower two days ago as an MD-80 from AA climbed out. "Eagle 528 contact departure. He resopnded, no that was AMERICAN 528 to departure." I laughed, like he could get through training at Eagle to fly for them.
80for80....Right on brother. I am assuming the people bustin out on Eagle flowbacks are trying to figure out how if they are better than the Eagle guys they can't even fly for them. Actually heard it on DFW tower two days ago as an MD-80 from AA climbed out. "Eagle 528 contact departure. He resopnded, no that was AMERICAN 528 to departure." I laughed, like he could get through training at Eagle to fly for them.
justApilot
Dawn Patroller
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justApilot
Dawn Patroller
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TWA 2 ASA FO....
I don't remember calling you names or saying anything about how I hate TWA pilots or that you were a furlough shield. I am actually the guy that says hi to all passing pilots in the terminal, it is kinda funny to see how many guys ignore you and I am not just talking about the LLC guys. To this day I have yet to get anything other than the stink eye from any former TWA employees in STL.
I don't remember calling you names or saying anything about how I hate TWA pilots or that you were a furlough shield. I am actually the guy that says hi to all passing pilots in the terminal, it is kinda funny to see how many guys ignore you and I am not just talking about the LLC guys. To this day I have yet to get anything other than the stink eye from any former TWA employees in STL.
TWA 2 ASA FO
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JustAPilot,
Do you remember what the Capt Rep for APA from SFO said to us fellow employees based in STL? I believe it was something to the fact of "Let me explain where you guys stand. We (AA Pilots) are major league baseball players, and you are the hot-dog vendors in our stadium."
During the merger, I didn't hear ONE AA PILOT stand up and say, "Hey let's try to have a fair merger with the TWA pilots and try to follow previous airline merger standards." Nope, as I recall all we ever heard from you guys was, "If there is ONE AA PILOT furloughed and there are ANY TWA pilots left on property then we should strike and shut this company down." In fact, one of your WONDERFUL Capts from MIA wrote that any former TWA F/O that ever flew with him should get used to going to the sim every 90 days for landing currency, because no TWA F/O would EVER make a landing in his aircraft.
And now, as you try to send your junior AA pilots down to Ealge as Capts, you are amazed they can't get through training. It is because they feel it is beneath them, so they don't try during training. I flew for a regional for 3 years before I was LUCKY enough to be hired by TWA and I will tell you, their training programs are 10X more challenging than major airlines. At majors, they do everything within their power to help you though training, but at a regional you have to be a motivated individual to get through. Maybe if the AA pilots flowing back down had any common sense they would realize how lucky they were to be getting a flying job at all right now, much less come in as a Capt. People like them get to a major and forget about reality. Well, unfortunately the reality of the industry right now is every last pilots who is still flying for a living at an airline is a VERY luck individual. I count myself in that list, even though I was furloughed, I am still VERY fortunate to be able to support myself flying for a living.
Do you remember what the Capt Rep for APA from SFO said to us fellow employees based in STL? I believe it was something to the fact of "Let me explain where you guys stand. We (AA Pilots) are major league baseball players, and you are the hot-dog vendors in our stadium."
During the merger, I didn't hear ONE AA PILOT stand up and say, "Hey let's try to have a fair merger with the TWA pilots and try to follow previous airline merger standards." Nope, as I recall all we ever heard from you guys was, "If there is ONE AA PILOT furloughed and there are ANY TWA pilots left on property then we should strike and shut this company down." In fact, one of your WONDERFUL Capts from MIA wrote that any former TWA F/O that ever flew with him should get used to going to the sim every 90 days for landing currency, because no TWA F/O would EVER make a landing in his aircraft.
And now, as you try to send your junior AA pilots down to Ealge as Capts, you are amazed they can't get through training. It is because they feel it is beneath them, so they don't try during training. I flew for a regional for 3 years before I was LUCKY enough to be hired by TWA and I will tell you, their training programs are 10X more challenging than major airlines. At majors, they do everything within their power to help you though training, but at a regional you have to be a motivated individual to get through. Maybe if the AA pilots flowing back down had any common sense they would realize how lucky they were to be getting a flying job at all right now, much less come in as a Capt. People like them get to a major and forget about reality. Well, unfortunately the reality of the industry right now is every last pilots who is still flying for a living at an airline is a VERY luck individual. I count myself in that list, even though I was furloughed, I am still VERY fortunate to be able to support myself flying for a living.
justApilot
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TWA 2ASA FO....
I don't know how I got pulled into this nonsence of flowbacks not cutting the mustard. That is not really a concern of mine. Neither was the seniority integration. Nor is how difficult major vs. regional training is. But since you seem to think I had/have something to do with these areas, here are my comments.
Flowbacks...if they can't handle it then they shouldn't be there. Period. End of story.
Major vs. regional training...I see nothing wrong with the training at AA. I question whether the regional training is 10X more difficult, I have yet to hear that from anyone. I have nothing to do with the training department, if you have problems maybe you should bring them up with the powers to be.
Seniority integration....there is no national seniority list. I am not going to go into the he said/she said game with you. I had nothing to do with the integration so don't point the finger at me, Buddy. But I am a firm believer in the staple. That's just me. I was hired by AA you were not. If the shoe was on the other foot I would completely understand going to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint. Nothing personal....just business.
It is unfortunate that there are so many guys out on the street. Hopefully we can get everyone back soon. And if I was such a SKY NAZI, AASShole or whatever you guys want to call me I wouldn't be contributing 100 bucks a month to the furlough fund. Go ahead and ignore me and turn your head in the terminals, it doesn't bother me a bit. I find it amusing. It is funny that people think that the average Joe line pilot at AA had anything to do with the integration. You just keep telling yourself that your life is a direct result of what I do. That's right...it's all MY fault. I just love people that can't take responsibility for their own lives.
I don't know how I got pulled into this nonsence of flowbacks not cutting the mustard. That is not really a concern of mine. Neither was the seniority integration. Nor is how difficult major vs. regional training is. But since you seem to think I had/have something to do with these areas, here are my comments.
Flowbacks...if they can't handle it then they shouldn't be there. Period. End of story.
Major vs. regional training...I see nothing wrong with the training at AA. I question whether the regional training is 10X more difficult, I have yet to hear that from anyone. I have nothing to do with the training department, if you have problems maybe you should bring them up with the powers to be.
Seniority integration....there is no national seniority list. I am not going to go into the he said/she said game with you. I had nothing to do with the integration so don't point the finger at me, Buddy. But I am a firm believer in the staple. That's just me. I was hired by AA you were not. If the shoe was on the other foot I would completely understand going to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint. Nothing personal....just business.
It is unfortunate that there are so many guys out on the street. Hopefully we can get everyone back soon. And if I was such a SKY NAZI, AASShole or whatever you guys want to call me I wouldn't be contributing 100 bucks a month to the furlough fund. Go ahead and ignore me and turn your head in the terminals, it doesn't bother me a bit. I find it amusing. It is funny that people think that the average Joe line pilot at AA had anything to do with the integration. You just keep telling yourself that your life is a direct result of what I do. That's right...it's all MY fault. I just love people that can't take responsibility for their own lives.
TWA Dude
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I'm staying out of the shouting match but I'd just like to comment on the Eagle vs. AA training issue. For those who didn't know the training at the Large Jet carriers is indeed much easier than at the Small Jet/regional carriers. It's not that the airplanes are harder to fly; it's the tone and attitude of the program. The majors hired you and want to keep you; the regionals hired you and then want to weed out a few. They're not necessarily unfriendly; just unforgiving. A furloughee must be mentally prepared for what's at hand and it's quite a transition. Having just been furloughed apparently doesn't put one in a great state of mind. OTOH, having been out of the cockpit for a whole year put me into just the right state of mind.
Dude
Dude
TWA 2 ASA FO
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JustAPilot: You said "If the shoe was on the other foot I would completely understand going to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint."
If you really believe that, you have lost touch with reality. As you know (you are not an idiot), seniority is everything in the airlines. The only reason you would say such a thing is to justify what YOU, yes YOU as an AA pilot did to the TWA pilots. I would bet that you would have a hard time finding anyone else on this board who believes you would just "go to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint." I have no problem understanding why you feel you should be able to staple the TWA pilots, why should you not try to better yourself at the expense of others (integrity, professional ethics ring bells).
As far as you saying you had nothing to do with it, that is a crock. Since (this is an assumption) you are a member of the APA, YOUR union did this to the TWA pilots. Since you are a union member, that means YOU did this to the TWA pilots. If you can produce some sort of e-mail or phone records of you trying to convince the APA that this was wrong to do, then I will retract this statement. Sitting around and letting the APA do this while no yourself "doing" anything doesn't remove the guilt. You in-action speaks just as loud as others' actions.
If you really believe that, you have lost touch with reality. As you know (you are not an idiot), seniority is everything in the airlines. The only reason you would say such a thing is to justify what YOU, yes YOU as an AA pilot did to the TWA pilots. I would bet that you would have a hard time finding anyone else on this board who believes you would just "go to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint." I have no problem understanding why you feel you should be able to staple the TWA pilots, why should you not try to better yourself at the expense of others (integrity, professional ethics ring bells).
As far as you saying you had nothing to do with it, that is a crock. Since (this is an assumption) you are a member of the APA, YOUR union did this to the TWA pilots. Since you are a union member, that means YOU did this to the TWA pilots. If you can produce some sort of e-mail or phone records of you trying to convince the APA that this was wrong to do, then I will retract this statement. Sitting around and letting the APA do this while no yourself "doing" anything doesn't remove the guilt. You in-action speaks just as loud as others' actions.
justApilot
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twa 2 asa fo...
I guess I have lost touch....
I agree with the staple method, so why would I try to change things in your favor? I have that right. Again I had nothing to do with the way the integration went down. There was a committee for that and I was not a part of it, had I been maybe things would be different. You can point your finger at me all day long and say that it is my fault. But it is not. Remember there is no national seniority list, so ethics, professionalism, your congressman, the dirty underware gang and others have nothing to do with integrating seniority. It's business plain and simple as I see it. I am happy that you have found employment in aviation and wish you the best. Remember I don't know you from Adam and I will be the guy that says "hi" in passing in the terminals.
I guess I have lost touch....
I agree with the staple method, so why would I try to change things in your favor? I have that right. Again I had nothing to do with the way the integration went down. There was a committee for that and I was not a part of it, had I been maybe things would be different. You can point your finger at me all day long and say that it is my fault. But it is not. Remember there is no national seniority list, so ethics, professionalism, your congressman, the dirty underware gang and others have nothing to do with integrating seniority. It's business plain and simple as I see it. I am happy that you have found employment in aviation and wish you the best. Remember I don't know you from Adam and I will be the guy that says "hi" in passing in the terminals.
Hagar17
Deliverin' the Goods.....
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2001
- Posts
- 231
Alcoholic? Don't you mean crack addict?
It's Hagar, numbnuts. Here's the FACTS:
from a ex-Ozark/TWA pilot:
1.) 10 year fence. Only dc-9 or b-727 flying for the Ozark pilots
2.) 16% captain jobs to Ozark pilots
3.) Ozark pilots to TWA only after all TWA f/o s upgrade to captain
4.) Ozark to bottom of TWA list
5.) Icahann to Ozark pilots, take it or we will shut it down
Dude, if your profile is accurate, get off this forum. This forum is for big boys. TWA dudes kill me. I'm sure if the roles were reversed, and TWA bought AA, they'd be rollin' out the big red carpets with a nice fat DOH seniority number for all of us AA guys. Give me a break. Grind your ax with ALPA. They're the ones that screwed you. I know TWA guys are pissed. I'd be pissed at the SITUATION, too, if I were in their shoes. But it's OVER!
Hag
ALCOHOLIC said:
It's Hagar, numbnuts. Here's the FACTS:
from a ex-Ozark/TWA pilot:
1.) 10 year fence. Only dc-9 or b-727 flying for the Ozark pilots
2.) 16% captain jobs to Ozark pilots
3.) Ozark pilots to TWA only after all TWA f/o s upgrade to captain
4.) Ozark to bottom of TWA list
5.) Icahann to Ozark pilots, take it or we will shut it down
Dude, if your profile is accurate, get off this forum. This forum is for big boys. TWA dudes kill me. I'm sure if the roles were reversed, and TWA bought AA, they'd be rollin' out the big red carpets with a nice fat DOH seniority number for all of us AA guys. Give me a break. Grind your ax with ALPA. They're the ones that screwed you. I know TWA guys are pissed. I'd be pissed at the SITUATION, too, if I were in their shoes. But it's OVER!
Hag
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80for80 said:
Sounds like we have a little chip on our shoulder. Just remember that someone will gladly fly your ride for less than you're paid...you're seeing it now w/ American Connection outsourcing.
I flew for Eagle prior to AA and didn't see the need to have my flying skills validated by another airlines union. It's business...the thing I find offensive in this industry is Sh***y wages and work rules.
Hagar17
Deliverin' the Goods.....
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2001
- Posts
- 231
Who said AE pilots aren't competent?
First of all, to all the OTHER Eagle pilots, I have never heard a pilot at AA say that American Eagle pilots are not competent jet airline pilots. NEVER. Not letting you undercut (scab) us and captain our jets for basically free doesn't mean APA thinks you aren't aeronautically competent, it means we have a union that is trying its best (not always successfully, given our '03 TA) to protect its members. Sort of like that 16 year turd ALPA set you guys up with. Wherever you get the idea that APA thinks you aren't competent must come from somewhere, but I can assure you, it doesn't come from the average Joe AA line pilot. We ALL know jets fly at basically the same speeds, altitudes, and fly in the same weather regardless of whether they are silver or white. I will add this, however. If you believe some APA pilots DO think AE guys are inferior, hiring dudes with 500/100 won't help dispel that myth much, do you think?
Guys like you give all AE pilots a bad name. The AE guys I know are embarrassed by knuckleheads like you. Posts like yours make you look like the idiot you are.
Hag
scab : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
80for80 said:
First of all, to all the OTHER Eagle pilots, I have never heard a pilot at AA say that American Eagle pilots are not competent jet airline pilots. NEVER. Not letting you undercut (scab) us and captain our jets for basically free doesn't mean APA thinks you aren't aeronautically competent, it means we have a union that is trying its best (not always successfully, given our '03 TA) to protect its members. Sort of like that 16 year turd ALPA set you guys up with. Wherever you get the idea that APA thinks you aren't competent must come from somewhere, but I can assure you, it doesn't come from the average Joe AA line pilot. We ALL know jets fly at basically the same speeds, altitudes, and fly in the same weather regardless of whether they are silver or white. I will add this, however. If you believe some APA pilots DO think AE guys are inferior, hiring dudes with 500/100 won't help dispel that myth much, do you think?
Guys like you give all AE pilots a bad name. The AE guys I know are embarrassed by knuckleheads like you. Posts like yours make you look like the idiot you are.
Hag
scab : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
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