AA Flight 48 oopsy

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Tulsa we have a problem.....

Were they venting something?

Did Haise get the clap from using the same pee tube as Swigart?


Just asking....



what's that oversized cat hairball doing in the lower right corner..

 

[bubbers44]

The crew did what made sense. They didn't over react and come back and land over weight because flight attendants said they heard strange sounds. Writing up an airplane for an overweight landing and declaring an emergency, because American requires you to do that, because a flight attendant heard strange sounds?????? It used to be easy to go back and verify for yourself but now it is a bit harder, especially with a two man crew, but now, even with a three man crew, going back to check something, requires more effort.

With what they knew at the time and the help from company they did their job well.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

They obviously neglected the first and best response to any abnormality in flight:

"What would Flightinfo do?"

 

[Captain Overs]

Link with pics:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/05/flight_48_from_dfw_to_paris_so.php

AA Flight 48, From DFW to Paris, Sounds Like One Hell of a Trip

Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:40:11 PM

Look at it this way -- at least Flight 48 to Paris wasn't late. It's the little things that matter.

Editor's note: Edmund Newton, managing editor of our sister paper in Fort Lauderdale, sends along the following tale:
Here’s the question: Is it safe to fly during times when commercial airlines are under grinding economic stress?
American Airlines Flight 48 had just taken off from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, at the start of a nine-hour overnight flight to Paris on April 20, when flight attendants heard an alarming noise from the bottom of the plane. According to one source, the sound was of “vibrating, shaking, even some ripping.”
Alerted to the noise by flight attendants, the trio of pilots in the cockpit -- two of them Miami-based -- considered their options. One of the pilots got on a phone line to the dispatch center at American headquarters in Fort Worth and then to the maintenance center in Tulsa. According to an internal memo from an unidentified flight safety official, “the pilots and TUL Tech thought [the sounds] may have been [from] a cargo shift of some sort.”
The memo added that “there were no indications in the cockpit, no warning lights or airframe vibrations felt.”

What it looks like when an air-conditioning access panel "departs" an airplane upon departure.

Though the plane was still a relatively short distance from take-off, the pilots, with the support of ground technicians, elected to continue the flight.
The source (who was not on the plane but is familiar with some of the principals involved) says the flight over the Atlantic was reportedly “pretty bumpy,” both because of unstable weather and because of the rumbling sounds emanating from the bottom of the plane.
After landing at Charles DeGaulle in Paris, the flight’s crew and French airport officials quickly gathered under the airplane to see a frightening scene of exposed machinery and dangling paneling. Some took pictures.
Though the company has made no announcements about the incident, scuttlebutt about the incident flew among American Airlines personnel.
Many flight employees were openly upset about the seeming recklessness of the decision to proceed with the flight -- though a source at American insists there was nothing reckless about it. "If the captain had known the panel was missing, there's no question he would have turned around," says the source, "but given the noise was the only indication with no further warnings in the cockpit, and three hours to judge the situation before they reached the ocean, the decision wasn't reckless. The pictures are very dramatic, but the passengers and crew weren't in any danger."
A corporate spokesman did not respond to an inquiry about the number of passengers on the airplane, but the Boeing 767-300 can carry up to 220.
Seasoned flight attendants questioned why, given the noises from the bottom of the airplane, the pilot didn’t return to DFW to check the fuselage. They also questioned a peculiar silence about the flight from corporate officials and from the crew. It wasn’t until Monday, after we started making inquiries, that a corporate official sent out a general message to all flight attendants, explaining what had happened. This was two weeks after the incident.
“The first thing you’re supposed to do in something like this is file a report with the union safety department,” the source said. “Some people think the company got to the flight attendants and told them to shut the ******************** up.”
Lonny Glover, safety coordinator for the flight attendants union, said that he had received “inquiries” from members about the incident but no “reports” from the flight attendants involved.
Asked about the appropriateness of continuing the flight, Glover said, “Given the information, it is the pilot’s final decision… From other pilots that I have spoken to, they stated they would have elected to do the same.”
Like the rest of the airline industry, American is suffering from high fuel costs and a shrinking travel market. American has been particularly afflicted by a series of forced inspections last month of its MD-80 aircrafts.
The company reported this week that its traffic had dropped 6.6 percent in April when it was forced to cancel more than 3,000 flights because of the rigorous inspection schedule. The value of company stock has fallen from almost $28 a year ago to its current level of about $9.

A close-up of what used to be the air-conditioning access panel

The internal memo concerning Flight 48 said that “an air conditioning access panel apparently departed the airplane during the climb out of DFW [Dallas/Fort Worth].”
It added: “The fuel burn on this particular flight… was not much more than any other flight,” indicating that there was no special drag on the airplane. The report acknowledges, however, that “there may have been some loud noise” during the flight because of the broken panels.
Also: “The captain took the situation very seriously and only continued the flight after consulting with ground personnel and determining there were no system malfunctions or other indication of continuing problems.”
Late Monday, American’s corporate communications manager John Hotard messaged that the airline “is investigating the incident and until all of the facts are known, we will have no further comment.” A Federal Aviation Administration spokesperson said today that the agency had received a hot line complaint about the incident from an airline employee and that it is under investigation. The hot line is set up for aviation industry employees to report on safety issues. --Edmund Newton




Category: Probably Insignificant Aviation News

At least they didn't land on a taxi way and really put their passengers in danger.

 

[cjdriver]

Honest question: If part of the environmental system had separated over the pond and they lost pressurization, would they have had enough fuel/O2 to make it to dry land?

 

[Britpilot]

Honest question: If part of the environmental system had separated over the pond and they lost pressurization, would they have had enough fuel/O2 to make it to dry land?

Yes. There are two separate pacs and there is also the apu.

 

[embpic1]

Honest question: If part of the environmental system had separated over the pond and they lost pressurization, would they have had enough fuel/O2 to make it to dry land?

I don't know the 767 well, but I am sure it has at least two packs. They might have been down to one pack had something happened to the exposed pack.

I think the crew did the right thing. They used all their resources and made a decision based on all info. Also I think most people here would be surprised to learn what Boeing will let you ferry an airplane with (Panels missing etc.) Sounds like the only problem was a slight over burn which is expected.

 

[FlyWolf]

Did any of the three pilots walk to the back to hear the noise?

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

I've seen this scenario before. If John Lithgow was on board and having a nervous breakdown I would have landed.

If William Shatner was on board and having a nervous breakdown I would have landed.

/there, fixed it for ya
//you're welcome
///I'm old school

 

[Whataburger]

I heard that if you taxi a 767 faster than 8kts underbelly panels start peeling off. I am sure that's what happened. Probably got 'er up to 9 maby 10 mindblowing kts. Boeings cant take that kind of abuse. Can you imagine someone taxing a Boeing 25-30ish kts?
At least ATC is catching on now. Probably what AA wants, but they're treated like lap traffic now. PHX - "Southwest you have a passing lane if you wanna step to Bravo, Grab Alpha once you pass the '80." Anyone hear that the price of oil is going up?

 

[Whataburger]

You mean his "Missing Panel Annunciator" was not illuminated? WTF? Sounds like the captain was on the ground for that flight.

Sure it wasn't the triplicated feeder to the mainfram disconbobulator valve junction?

 

[ultrarunner]

CDL that panel and press on!

 

[Whine Lover]

YOU are the PIC and YOU will be held accountable ultimately.

That was my main point, and yes LJDRVR, I am an arrogant D-Weed.

But seriously, the key words are UNKNOWN and PROBLEM.

You know you have a problem, but you don't know what it is, or more importantly...WHAT IT MIGHT TURN INTO.

Thats the "gotcha'" the Feds are going to use.

If ultimately nothing else goes awry you are okay...If something else arises as a result of the first problem and the scenario worsens YOU will be held accountable and the questions will be:

" So Captain, you felt it was prudent and cautious to continue flying an aircraft, that you knew had some sort of a problem, which you could not identify? Ultimately resulting in ( insert bad thing here ). Wouldn't it have been better to land and find out what you were really dealing with? "

I have seen this scenario way too many times:

Pilots calling Mommy (The Company), asking what to do, and deferring their ultimate responsibility to others on the ground.

In the end YOU will be held ultimately responsible for whatever happens.

And , yes, I would have just landed overweight on a nice long runway and written my Report .

Thank you.

YKMKR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If the crew knew the panel was missing would they go TransAtlantic?



Land at JFK under MLW, inspect plane...

HOLY SHAT! a panel is missing.....

fix plane and/or rebook pax....


now..... was that so hard?

 

[RJidiot]

If William Shatner was on board and having a nervous breakdown I would have landed.

/there, fixed it for ya
//you're welcome
///I'm old school

I was referring to the Twilight Zone movie where the flying monster was tearing panels off the airplane and only Lithgow could see it.

 

[AA717driver]

I've held the opinion for a long time than AA crews might be a little quick to divert for possible mx issues.

MIA is the most radical base in...well, the WORLD.

Those two items tell me that there was no indication that would mandate a diversion or RTB.

If I diverted every time a FA heard a strange noise, I'd have to work till 70 to make up for the lost pay!

And, the FAA will prosecute them to the fullest extent, Monday-morning-QB'ing (at least to the extent their limited experience will permit...) all the way because we all know how closely the FAA is monitoring the airlines, right? TC

P.S.: Whataburger--Quit whining. If that lovefest you have with management ever ends, we'll understand when YOU decide to 'send a message'. Ok?

Besides, since Redding sold all our parts, we're rollin' on cheap retreads. Wouldn't want any 'road-agators' fouling the runway at PHX and FOD'ding out our precious JT-8's, would we...

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I've held the opinion for a long time than AA crews might be a little quick to divert for possible mx issues.

MIA is the most radical base in...well, the WORLD.

Those two items tell me that there was no indication that would mandate a diversion or RTB.

If I diverted every time a FA heard a strange noise, I'd have to work till 70 to make up for the lost pay!

And, the FAA will prosecute them to the fullest extent, Monday-morning-QB'ing (at least to the extent their limited experience will permit...) all the way because we all know how closely the FAA is monitoring the airlines, right? TC

P.S.: Whataburger--Quit whining. If that lovefest you have with management ever ends, we'll understand when YOU decide to 'send a message'. Ok?

Besides, since Redding sold all our parts, we're rollin' on cheap retreads. Wouldn't want any 'road-agators' fouling the runway at PHX and FOD'ding out our precious JT-8's, would we...

Bashing another guy about a lovefest? And then a captain gets overridden by a management type. Classic.

 

[Daedalus]

I was referring to the Twilight Zone movie where the flying monster was tearing panels off the airplane and only Lithgow could see it.

So was Tailgunner.

Lithgow reprised the original Twilight Zone episode that was performed by Bill Shatner.....ergo Tailgunner's "old school" comment.

 

[RJidiot]

So was Tailgunner.

Lithgow reprised the original Twilight Zone episode that was performed by Bill Shatner.....ergo Tailgunner's "old school" comment.

Didn't catch that one. Thanks.

 

[skypine69]

I love the part in the article where the source who was not on the flight described the flight as bumpy! Gee really, a flight across the north atlantic bumpy? so it isnt so!!! not only does mesa suck, but the media sucks!